Decent placement, poor penetration. Ideas?

[Mo_coon-catcher]

I'm posting this in the campfire since I was shooting a glass recurve. But I've been getting my confidence back enough with the 55# Damon howatt to take it out hunting the last couple days. This morning I finally got a shot on a spike I've been seeing around for the last month. I made what looked to be good shot placement. Broadside, 1/3 way up, in the armpit. But the arrow only penetrated a few inches. We tracked him with little but steady blood for the first 100 yards, turned o nothing until we found where he fell breaking off the arrow and leaving a decent puddle of blood and a couple chunks of lung. The. There was ok blood for another 50 yards or so ten nothing. It doesn't make much sense to me or my friend who was helping me look. We looked until he had to help with something for his church and I had to go to work. I'm going to go back in the morning and find him. I can't figure out the minimal penetration I got. I was using a 55# Damon howatt mamba drawn to about 25", the arrow weighs about 520 gr white pine/ Douglas fir (I'm not sure which, it came from a 2x4) and is tipped with an MA3 125. Any ideas? I've been having a terrible year bow hunting. Lost two with the training wheels, one due to a branch knocking the bow high on the shot and hitting the top of her back, a 10 point the I got lousy penetration for a 570 gr at 240fps on a frontal shot he went a long ways with almost no blood flowing, and now I have yet to find this spike. Hopefully in the morning I'll find him and see what happens. I included a picture of where it looked like I hit, though the picture is turned more to show the line, the deer was squarely broadside. Let's hope for some good news in the morning,  first traditional deer in almost 10 years and I can't find it yet.

Any ideas on why such limited penetration?

Thanks
Kyle

[Pat B]

Sounds like you hit a little more forward than you thought and hit the scapula or leg bone. I did the same on an 8pt late one evening with a 600gr ash arrow and a Grizzly head from a 55@26" glass recurve. We trailed him for 5 hours that night and 5 hours the next day and covered over 1000 yards but never recovered him. Two weeks later I was checking a scrape and his fresh track(1 odd hoof print) was in it. I never saw tat buck again but I'm sure he lived.
 I hope you find your deer but if not, there is a good chance he will survive...a little smarter than before. 

[Mo_coon-catcher]

A buddy and I are gonna try again in th morning. If he makes it I'll be surprised since we found a couple small pieces of lung. and I got to thinking the same thing that I hit the leg somewhere. Especially since I remembered that at the shot he rocked directly away from me so he might have shifter the leg or scapula and I migt have hit more forward than I'm thinking. I won't know for sure unless I find him. If he lives I sure hope he's smarter. That's the 5th time he has been within 20 yards of me and several times he showed up while I was shidting and caught my movement and went on about his business like I wasn't there.

Kyle

[willie]

think you will find him if you hit him in the lung. If he bled internally when he laid down it might be a case of once they run out of blood they don't bleed much, but they can't go far either

[Zuma]

If you saw lungs he will die. although I agree with Pat an arrow
shot a little to forward can hit bone. I think it is hard to tell the
penetration depth from the broken arrow under the circumstances.
I think you need to search for at least 1,000 yds. if you loose blood
you need to place a rock or log to come back to if the blood stops.
With the arrow out the deer can stuff it's own hair to slow/stop the
 bleeding. If the trail dries up, figure the line the deer took after
being shot. If he took a discernibly deer trail. Follow it. leave a rock etc.
and make a circular sweep every 30 yards or so. Be sure to check thick
cover and logs. I have found deer that made it a quarter mile laying in
a 6' pool of blood this way. How do they do it??? but they do.
Hope it helps.
Zuma

[burchett.donald]

Kyle,
        Not saying you had poor arrow flight, but how was it?  I want to say to everyone, especially the new bow hunters that arrow flight is probably the one most important factor to arrow penetration...We have to have that shaft driving directly behind the head so that all the weight is pushing from nock to point...If you have any wind plane or the slightest wiggle your losing almost all your energy no matter how heavy the bow is...The only penetration problems I have experienced is an angle shot trying to exit the outside shoulder...Hope you find your deer and good hunting...
                                                                                                                                              Don

[nclonghunter]

You are obviously an experienced bow hunter and tracker. I do not believe a deer will survive with one lung for long. You will find that deer.

The arrow weight and poundage you are shooting is plenty for deer. I am a big believer in FOC weights on arrows. The heavier the broadhead the better. That would be the only suggestion I could make in examining your equipment.

Let us know how it goes! Good luck

[Mo_coon-catcher]

The arrow flight looked decent to me from the little I could tell, too amped up and focused on the target. But I wouldn't be too surprised if it was a little off since I had been hunting in rain and heavy fog for two days. But they were darts before even without fletchings and the field point I shot flew good when I was walking out. I've been bow hunting for a few years now, started at 14 and am 23 now. First bow deer was with a 45# recurve at 14. But back to the deer. The blood was only what I would consider normal chest hit blood for about 50 yards after the arrow first brok off and was very thin to nothing before that. But with how he was moving it was hard to tell if the heavy blood was before or after the arrow fell out. We lost the blood for about 75 yards and just found the heavy stuff and followed it to the arrow. Then once we couldn't find any more we scoured about a 200 yard radius before we had to leave. He was sort of following trails but he kept zigzagging every 20-50 yards or so. I left the blokes chunk of arrow where it was so I can easily find it in the morning and start searching every where. The blood he was throwing was in a spray where there would be aeveral nickle sized dropped in about a 6"-12" spot and off to te side of the trail a little. Some spots of blood would be about two feet to the side. Where he fell there were several softball sized puddles with the arrow piece in one and the pieces of lung about 3-4' from the puddles.  Definitely one of my harder tracking jobs. He worse I never found and it would be a couple pencil eraser sized drops every 10-20 yards for nearly a half mile and never could find him. 

Kyle

[half eye]

hey Kyle,
     I believe that Pat called it real close. There is a chance that on the way in your broadhead knicked the point of the elbow and "rolled" the tip over a little bit (poor penetration). I have tracked deer for friends over the years that had one lung penetrated and some were lethal and some were not, and in either case they left the same blood trail you describe. You sound like an ethical hunter to me and you must realize that sooner or later you are going to loose a deer, I've done that too and found it so upsetting that I passed up hunting for a year after I did it.....there is no way to avoid it, you try and do the very best you can but stuff is going to happen. I know if the shot was fatal you WILL find it, but there is also the possibility that he will be around a long time with one lung.
    For what is worth to ya.....I've killed deer that broadheads stuck in their skull, stuck on the inside of the shoulder blade, and one with an old bullet wound right through the neck....those deer were getting along just fine at the time I shot them....deer are very tough animals.
    There aint nothing I can say to make this situation any easier for you and you have to live with it but do not give up hunting regardless of how your search goes. I strongly suspect that with this "bad" year under your belt things will go a lot smoother in the future.....sort of the "Nature of the beast" some shots and years are going to be picture perfect and some are gonna suck big time. I'm near to 70yrs old and have bow hunted since the early 1960's cant say how many highs and lows there has been...
   Good hunting like Don said,
rich

[Eric Krewson]

Switch to a two blade broadhead for better penetration.

[JEB]

Not sure how long you waited after hitting the deer.  Our rule of thumb is, two hours unless you hear or see the deer fall and 8 hours on a gut shot.  If you leave the deer alone it will lay down.  I know sometime when we track a deer with good blood and then run out we circle the area and look for the deer.

[Mo_coon-catcher]

Never could find him this morning. A buddy and I got out and looking for him at abou 7 this morning and there was no more sign of him after what we found yesterday. I left him alone for about an hour before we started looking. I probably should have grabbed the two blade head to shoot with. I have MA3 and ace standards. They both shoot almost identical to atleast 20 yards so I would just grab whatever felt good at the time. Next time I'll use the ace and see how they do.

Thanks for all the advice and tips everyone. I'm not going to give up on hunting even after the string of bad luck this season. It's still not the best feeling to lose a deer or more than one. But bad things happen, just gotta roll with it and do what you can to make the best of it, then once you've done everything you can, move on and try again.

Thanks,
Kyle

[MWirwicki]

I too would have suggested a 2-Blade broadhead.  I just took a doe using an old ACE 2 blade.  Arrow entered high above the shoulder (shooting from a treestand, deer at about 5 yards from the tree) buried up to the fletch.  Upon field dressing, the arrow entered the heart up top and exited out the bottom.

[Pat B]

Matt,a hole at the bottom of the deer's chest is the best for a blood trail.          Side shot from the ground just fills the body cavity with blood and leaves very little blood unless it was under pressure.

[nclonghunter]

Sorry you didn't find him.....watch for circling buzzards or loud crows.