stronges bow on the world

[chaetaux]

how strong was bow guinnes record holder Mark Strenton?

[El Destructo]

I can find no record of Stretton holding the Record....this Guy states that He holds it....

http://www.indium.com/drlasky/entry.php?id=386


Hello And Good day !
Please allow me to introduce myself , I am Den Erickson .
I am the Worlds Strongest Archer , and have been for (April 1994 ) 10 Years prior to Mark Stretton's so called "Feat" .
I have demonstrated my Ability to successfully Shoot and Hunt with these weights .
I on a weekly basis shoot 6 / 6 arrow ends at 125# , 147# ,And over 230 #
with recurves and a Longbow , Drawn to my natural Draw length of 26 1/2 " .
At the Moment Mark Stretton while a terrific and competent Archer is no where near my strength or abilities , has been challenged in this regard and refuses any sort of competition .
I do have a current claim in to Guinness whilst Mark Stretton does not .

As to Stats
I am 5'8" , and 280 lbs . 32 years of age

In coorespondance with Pip he has mentioned he does not endorse any one let alone Mark Stretton pulling such heavy weight as he feels it is historically inaccurate .

This is for informational purposes as well as serving as a challenge to Mark Stretton to Match me or beat me as The Worlds Strongest .
I may be reached at Varbogen@aol.com
or USA tel 262-705-2245 .
Sincerely ,
Den Erickson
The Worlds Strongest Archer ( U.S.)

[Rod]

It only matters if it can hit....
Perhaps you might like to consider the same challenge I put to Mark and others in the heavy bow community. Though some have agreed that a benchmark in accuracy would be useful, no-one thus far has made the effort to set such a benchmark.
The proposal was to shoot 72 x consecutive arrows in sets of three or six at 100 yards at the standard 48" target face. (FITA 122cm) and to record the number of hits and the score on 5 zone scoring (Gold 9,Red 7,Blue 5,Black 3 & White 1)
The general reaction has been that target shooting is irrelevant, despite the fact that target shooting is historically an offshoot of practice for military shooting.

I don't know why there is such reluctance to set a benchmark (though I suspect it is the certain knowledge that a low score would be posted) since any criticism of the level of score is easily answered by inviting any critic to take up the heavy bow and show what he can do with the same draw weight, much as Dick Galway once responded to crticism from a target archer by inviting to demonstrate with Dick's own bow, which the man could not even draw, let alone shoot.

Unfortunately the present stage of development in the heavy bow fraternity seems at present to be focussed upon what weight can be pulled and what distance can be made with little or no regard to the level of accuracy, which is unfortunate.

Bearing in mind that the Chinese, in the Tang dynasty qualified an archer as first class by his ability to get six hits with six arrows in a man sized target at 100 paces. Less than six hits out of six won you a second class grade and no hits at all was a failing grade.
Some weak sister complained that this also was irrelevant as the Chinese were shooting composite bows, which is an absurd cop out.
All war bow cultures demanded  two things of their archers, regardless of the style of bow.

One is the ability to maintain a rate of fire, the other that they should be capable of hitting a man at the closer distances and in war bow cultures, 100 paces is considered close enough to hit a man, 40 paces or less would be very close and considered a gift.
Such bows are these days most often demonstrated at very close distances, which is fair enough given the constraints of public demonstration and safe layout for spectators, but for a fighting warbow, 12 score paces used to be the legal minimum practice distance and 100 paces is getting pretty close to point on.

Perhaps you would care to set an example by establishing a benchmark at 100 yards, bearing in mind that in long-bow custom, no sighters are permitted and all arrow will count. No sights or marks on the bow limb as an aid to finding the elevation are permitted though there is nothing to prevent the use of point of aim.
There is of course also nothing to prevent you from practising, but any claim for a benchmark score should be independantly witnessed and recorded as a discrete round of consecutive arrows.

This would be a  record that really means something in the traditional context of war bow shooting.
Rod.

[outcaste]

What would be the target size at say 220/40 yards?

[nick1346]

I can find no record of Stretton holding the Record....this Guy states that He holds it....

http://www.indium.com/drlasky/entry.php?id=386


Hello And Good day !
Please allow me to introduce myself , I am Den Erickson .
I am the Worlds Strongest Archer , and have been for (April 1994 ) 10 Years prior to Mark Stretton's so called "Feat" .
I have demonstrated my Ability to successfully Shoot and Hunt with these weights .
I on a weekly basis shoot 6 / 6 arrow ends at 125# , 147# ,And over 230 #
with recurves and a Longbow , Drawn to my natural Draw length of 26 1/2 " .
At the Moment Mark Stretton while a terrific and competent Archer is no where near my strength or abilities , has been challenged in this regard and refuses any sort of competition .
I do have a current claim in to Guinness whilst Mark Stretton does not .

As to Stats
I am 5'8" , and 280 lbs . 32 years of age

In coorespondance with Pip he has mentioned he does not endorse any one let alone Mark Stretton pulling such heavy weight as he feels it is historically inaccurate .

This is for informational purposes as well as serving as a challenge to Mark Stretton to Match me or beat me as The Worlds Strongest .
I may be reached at Varbogen@aol.com
or USA tel 262-705-2245 .
Sincerely ,
Den Erickson
The Worlds Strongest Archer ( U.S.)

Mark Stretton set the world record for a longbow at 200lb draw weight with Guiness world records a few years back.  Den Erickson may well be able to shoot such draw weights but certainly does not hold the world record, to claim to be and to actualy be are two entirely different things.

It only matters if it can hit....
Perhaps you might like to consider the same challenge I put to Mark and others in the heavy bow community. Though some have agreed that a benchmark in accuracy would be useful, no-one thus far has made the effort to set such a benchmark.
The proposal was to shoot 72 x consecutive arrows in sets of three or six at 100 yards at the standard 48" target face. (FITA 122cm) and to record the number of hits and the score on 5 zone scoring (Gold 9,Red 7,Blue 5,Black 3 & White 1)
The general reaction has been that target shooting is irrelevant, despite the fact that target shooting is historically an offshoot of practice for military shooting.

I don't know why there is such reluctance to set a benchmark (though I suspect it is the certain knowledge that a low score would be posted) since any criticism of the level of score is easily answered by inviting any critic to take up the heavy bow and show what he can do with the same draw weight, much as Dick Galway once responded to crticism from a target archer by inviting to demonstrate with Dick's own bow, which the man could not even draw, let alone shoot.

Unfortunately the present stage of development in the heavy bow fraternity seems at present to be focussed upon what weight can be pulled and what distance can be made with little or no regard to the level of accuracy, which is unfortunate.

Bearing in mind that the Chinese, in the Tang dynasty qualified an archer as first class by his ability to get six hits with six arrows in a man sized target at 100 paces. Less than six hits out of six won you a second class grade and no hits at all was a failing grade.
Some weak sister complained that this also was irrelevant as the Chinese were shooting composite bows, which is an absurd cop out.
All war bow cultures demanded  two things of their archers, regardless of the style of bow.

One is the ability to maintain a rate of fire, the other that they should be capable of hitting a man at the closer distances and in war bow cultures, 100 paces is considered close enough to hit a man, 40 paces or less would be very close and considered a gift.
Such bows are these days most often demonstrated at very close distances, which is fair enough given the constraints of public demonstration and safe layout for spectators, but for a fighting warbow, 12 score paces used to be the legal minimum practice distance and 100 paces is getting pretty close to point on.

Perhaps you would care to set an example by establishing a benchmark at 100 yards, bearing in mind that in long-bow custom, no sighters are permitted and all arrow will count. No sights or marks on the bow limb as an aid to finding the elevation are permitted though there is nothing to prevent the use of point of aim.
There is of course also nothing to prevent you from practising, but any claim for a benchmark score should be independantly witnessed and recorded as a discrete round of consecutive arrows.

This would be a  record that really means something in the traditional context of war bow shooting.
Rod.

Thats an interesting point but it misses the point somewhat. Warbow archers, certainly those in the uk, tend to practice roving marks where accuracy is very important, however the way that accuracy is judged in roving is markedly differen't to other forms of archery. The test that you propose is one based on sport target archery, roving requires archers to group there arrows on the ground and distances out to 250yds+, without knowing the distance to those marks, to be regarded as accurate you have to be able to group two to three bow lengths from that mark. Asking a roving mark archer to prove his ability by shooting a fita round would be like asking a fita target to shoot a rove and then extrapolate his ability from to the other.

Now you are correct when say that we should practice at field and target, but the problem we face is that we are practically banned from doing so in the uk. Clubs refuse to allow warbow archers to shoot at targets and the governing body for longbows in the uk puts a limit of 70lb draw on longbows for target archery.

It may interest you to know that a shoot we shall be holding in the near future we shall be doing something like this. A flat boss 80x80cm will be put out at 20,30,40,50,60......yds as a last man standing contest. Will it be 'independantly witnessed to your satifaction? Probably not but it will be to mine and everybody else who is there and that is what matters Sorry.

Oh and by the way we are perfectly aware that your not meant to use sight markings.

[outcaste]

Hi Nick,

It was kind of the point I was trying to say (not very well) with target size at 220 plus yards. The tolerance (expectations) are wider at those distances.

Alistair

[nick1346]

Hi Nick,

It was kind of the point I was trying to say (not very well) with target size at 220 plus yards. The tolerance (expectations) are wider at those distances.

Alistair

Hi Alistair,

I thought thats what you meant

Interesting that the above quote mentions chinese archers. Given the '1st class' ability, which is a fantastic achievement, it is interesting to think how many would have made into Henry V army, not many given the minimum standards applied there with far heavier bows. Not that I'm claiming I could achieve what the chinese archers achieved ohh blimey no

See you at the shoot

Nick

[El Destructo]

You Stated that:

Mark Stretton set the world record for a longbow at 200lb draw weight with Guiness world records a few years back.  Den Erickson may well be able to shoot such draw weights but certainly does not hold the world record, to claim to be and to actualy be are two entirely different things.


I can still not find any listing of Stretton in the Guinness Book....or on their Website to verify this...can you find it and post it???
 

[nick1346]

You Stated that:

Mark Stretton set the world record for a longbow at 200lb draw weight with Guiness world records a few years back.  Den Erickson may well be able to shoot such draw weights but certainly does not hold the world record, to claim to be and to actualy be are two entirely different things.


I can still not find any listing of Stretton in the Guinness Book....or on their Website to verify this...can you find it and post it???
 

It's not on there now, well the search didn't pick it up I don't know why. But here are some details where you can find about it. Mark set the record on 15th August 2004 so any record of it would be in the 2005(?) book and the Glade issue 106 ran an article on it.

[Rod]

Interesting that the above quote mentions chinese archers. Given the '1st class' ability, which is a fantastic achievement, it is interesting to think how many would have made into Henry V army, not many given the minimum standards applied there with far heavier bows. Not that I'm claiming I could achieve what the chinese archers achieved ohh blimey no

[/quote]

Nick,
Which is pretty much what I would expect given the tone and content of your response to a challenge to set a benchmark for accuracy at 100 yards, which was not even addressed to you.
How do you think you would fare going for Tang Dynasty second class? Surely that is achievable with a modicum of practice?
Probably the vast majority fell into this category since it is quite easy to miss at 100 paces and I expect that only a relatively small percentile made the first class grade.

I have no problem with someone who honestly says "I don't think I could do that" but I always hear the same old excuses.
It's not about what you like doing, or what you think you can't do, or whether you would feel embarassed at shooting a lower score than a target archer.
As I said above, when criticised by a target archer, offer him your bow and let him show you what he can do with your draw weight.

I can understand a pleasant social knockout contest starting at 20 yards, but those are for a warbow, extremely close distances and 100 yardfs should be pretty near to point on with some shafts.

But childrens and ethical hunting distances are not the distances for setting a benchmark for accuracy with a war bow.
You should not be worried about embarassing yourself with something as harmless as a recorded score.
A low score is only a place to start, something to build upon.
It won't get you killed, which is what your attitude would do if it was for real.

A good archer would have been a fair allround hand, since excuses are useless in the face of the enemy.

BTW since Den is a foreigner I thought it useful to mention something to him that I thought that you would know. But thanks for the information anyway.
A FITA face is suggested since it is the same anywhere in the world, which is useful if we are considering setting a standard for accuracy.
This does not of itself make it impossible to shoot at it with a longbow.
What it does mean however, is that you will have a recorded score which can be subject to comparison, which as you well know, is the real cause of your reluctance.
Fair enough, if you are not ready to record a score at 100 paces, it's a free country, no-one is going to make you do it.
Rod.

Alistair,
Judging by the local butt mounds, I would say around 10 or 12 feet in diameter, but no doubt with a centre "coit" or peg, like the Luttrell Salter drawing.
Rod.

[Badger]

Anyone who has ever seen a photo of Den Erickson drawing a bow will no longer take hime serious. His full draw looks to be about 16". He claims to run the 40 yard dash in something like 40 seconds. And is the greatest and anything that comes up. Steve

[Justin Snyder]

Anyone who has ever seen a photo of Den Erickson drawing a bow will no longer take hime serious. His full draw looks to be about 16". He claims to run the 40 yard dash in something like 40 seconds. And is the greatest and anything that comes up. Steve

Steve, we call everybody that is like that STAN. You tell a story and they say "S#!t That Ain't Nothing", S T A N.  Justin

[nick1346]

Nick,
Which is pretty much what I would expect given the tone and content of your response to a challenge to set a benchmark for accuracy at 100 yards, which was not even addressed to you.
How do you think you would fare going for Tang Dynasty second class? Surely that is achievable with a modicum of practice?
Probably the vast majority fell into this category since it is quite easy to miss at 100 paces and I expect that only a relatively small percentile made the first class grade.

I have no problem with someone who honestly says "I don't think I could do that" but I always hear the same old excuses.
It's not about what you like doing, or what you think you can't do, or whether you would feel embarassed at shooting a lower score than a target archer.
As I said above, when criticised by a target archer, offer him your bow and let him show you what he can do with your draw weight.

I can understand a pleasant social knockout contest starting at 20 yards, but those are for a warbow, extremely close distances and 100 yardfs should be pretty near to point on with some shafts.

But childrens and ethical hunting distances are not the distances for setting a benchmark for accuracy with a war bow.
You should not be worried about embarassing yourself with something as harmless as a recorded score.
A low score is only a place to start, something to build upon.
It won't get you killed, which is what your attitude would do if it was for real.

A good archer would have been a fair allround hand, since excuses are useless in the face of the enemy.

BTW since Den is a foreigner I thought it useful to mention something to him that I thought that you would know. But thanks for the information anyway.
A FITA face is suggested since it is the same anywhere in the world, which is useful if we are considering setting a standard for accuracy.
This does not of itself make it impossible to shoot at it with a longbow.
What it does mean however, is that you will have a recorded score which can be subject to comparison, which as you well know, is the real cause of your reluctance.
Fair enough, if you are not ready to record a score at 100 paces, it's a free country, no-one is going to make you do it.
Rod.

Alistair,
Judging by the local butt mounds, I would say around 10 or 12 feet in diameter, but no doubt with a centre "coit" or peg, like the Luttrell Salter drawing.
Rod.

My point about chinese archers was to illustrate the fact that you cannot take one group of archers and directly compare them to another if you do you end up with a very weak comparison. A chinese archer shoots chinese kit and in the ethos of his military mindset, an English archer likewise the two are not the same. Who knows if I tried there test I may be a 1st, 2nd or zilch archer but as I have no interest in chinese archery, which is probably a lot of fun, I'm not about to go out and buy chinese bows and learn their shooting techniques.

In a similar vain your test falls down for the same reason. It is a test of target archery and even though it's not aimed at me, which  must mean your only interested in certain individual archers and not warbows per se, it is not what I try to train for. To say that I'm offering excuses and I'm worried I'll be embarresed is ridiculous, I'm a grown bloody man not some wet behind the ears kid! I know I'd be beaten hands down by a target archer, so what? You don't judge a rally driver by making him race at siverstone against a superbike. To under take your challenge then I'd have to train for it, which you have to see as fair, to do that takes time. Time which I'm better able to spend roving, clout shooting and heavy arrow shooting which is what I do. If you want a 'bench mark' come up with something based on that and you may get a few takers. You can't seriously expect people to start shooting in a completely differen't manner becuase you issuse a challenge, what happens if the week after someone else comes up with another one for us which we have to undertake to satisfy them? What good would it serve us?

If you want a bench mark base it on something readily repeatable which reflects what most warbow archers do. As an example clout shooting, or how well you group your military arrows on the round at your furthest range. A challenge like that may be taken up becuase that is what we already do, to say we have to do something completely differen't would be like asking compound archers to take up military arrow shooting, it's not something there interested in otherwise they'd shoot warbows. It is agian trying to judge one style of shooting by anothers benchmarks, whats the point?

Making cheap points out of 'we know your real reaosons for not wanting' is not only childish but also insulting. if you want poeple to do your test might I suggest that you  are more gracious to those who turn you down or find other ways in which you could improve upon your challenge. After all if someone reads this they might think I'll give that a go but they may be put off thinking if they do badly they will get cheap comments thrown at them by yourself after all I've not even taken your 'test' and your calling me to all intense and purposes a coward, bizare!

As for Den Erickson I have no idea if he can do what he claims, if he goes out and gets a world record then I'll drink a toast to him, if he doesn't then he doesn't it doesn't worry me.

[adb]

Wow, lots of chest thumping and finger pointing!!

[nick1346]

Wow, lots of chest thumping and finger pointing!!

Ug