willow?

[PatM]

The Willow used by the southwest tribes was likely not true willow.


 BTW  riverrat/Tony Is this the same guy from about 15 years ago?

Not true.  In Survival Skills of Native California they specifically mention that they make bows of Black Willow with another mentioning that he prefers Arroyo Willow.  The bows are short with deflexed tips.  Also on Paleo Planet Basketmaker has made several 40lb bows of willow.  I am working on a arroyo willow bow following the methods detailed in the book.

    I would research the ranges of those willows before stating that. Many books also say the Western Indians made bows of "White Cedar".

[PatM]

The Willow used by the southwest tribes was likely not true willow.

What do you think it was, Pat?  There are a few fragments of bows at the U of U museum, and they look like child bows.   The only others I have seen that claim to be willow are pretty long and do have the deflexed tips.

I think they are more likely to have been "Desert Willow" which is not a true willow at all.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilopsis

[PEARL DRUMS]

I can promise the type of willows we have around me will not make that war bow, or any bow for that matter. Unless of course your into 85" long by 3" wide 40# bows. 

[JoJoDapyro]

The Willow used by the southwest tribes was likely not true willow.


 BTW  riverrat/Tony Is this the same guy from about 15 years ago?

Not true.  In Survival Skills of Native California they specifically mention that they make bows of Black Willow with another mentioning that he prefers Arroyo Willow.  The bows are short with deflexed tips.  Also on Paleo Planet Basketmaker has made several 40lb bows of willow.  I am working on a arroyo willow bow following the methods detailed in the book.

    I would research the ranges of those willows before stating that. Many books also say the Western Indians made bows of "White Cedar".

White Cedar could be Incense cedar, or any number of juniper species. Keep in mind 29 Palms was named after Joshua trees, they had never seen palms, so thought that is what they were.

[PEARL DRUMS]

The amount of wood on that war bow makes it very obvious its not your typical NA willow.

[PatM]

 It's not, it's a European willow. Few of the North American Willows are large trees like the European types. The Willow that is used for Cricket bats is a whole different animal.
 My point about the White Cedar mentioned by western explorers is just to illustrate that the name used often gives a terrible representation as to the exact type of tree.
 It's bad enough with the cedar names that are botanically wrong but still accepted.

[WillS]

Poplar is my pet hate.  Over here in the UK arrow shaft suppliers import tulipwood which is known as poplar.  But its a completely different species to European poplar or "aspen".  So everybody's running around shooting "poplar" arrows thinking they're all mediaeval, when its really an exotic import wood.

Sourcing actual, real poplar (populus tremula) is like finding hens teeth or hobby horse sh**.

[PatM]

 North American wood is "exotic"? 
 It's kind of surprising that real Poplar is hard to find but it's the availability and greater size of the Tulip Tree that likely led to it replacing the real thing.

[mikekeswick]

It's because tulipwood grows very high, very quickly and is also one of our straightest trees.
'Cricket bat' willow is Salix alba. It still a bit shoddy for bows! Finding a straight clean flawless stave is easy though!

[PatM]

When did you guys start calling it Tulipwood? That's not actually a common name anywhere else. Tulip Poplar and Tulip Tree are used.
 Tulipwood to most is the tropical Rosewood species.

[WillS]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulipwood

[PatM]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulipwood

  They're using that? Must be very wealthy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liriodendron

[WillS]

Dunno about wealthy.  That's the stuff we get imported, and is available in every archery shop in the country.  About $3 per shaft.

[PatM]

Dunno about wealthy.  That's the stuff we get imported, and is available in every archery shop in the country.  About $3 per shaft.

  My point is that I thought you were implying that the wood  being used was the tropical variety which costs about $25  for a piece that might make a hammer handle.

 Aspen/Poplar is widely available in the tree form. People just don't seem to want to pursue arrow wood the same way they do bow wood. I'm sure if one really wanted to make authentic Aspen shafts locating some trees would be no problem.

[WillS]

My latest set of arrows were made from Aspen and it took me the better part of a year to source stuff good enough for them.  The only reason I spent so much of my time to get some was because I was making replicas of Mary Rose arrows.  It paid off though.  Aspen is quite a bit lighter than "poplar."