Author Topic: Finally got one!  (Read 8152 times)

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Offline Ranasp

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Finally got one!
« on: September 02, 2015, 10:58:06 pm »
I'm very excited about finally landing my hands on a Grozer horse bow.  Just came in the mail today, and I haven't even had the chance to string it yet!  I'll definitely be doing so once I have some daylight.  It's an Assyrian 43# biolaminate, and it's incredibly light. 


Offline Pat B

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 11:40:42 pm »
She's a beauty. What are the components?
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Ranasp

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2015, 12:17:37 pm »
Horn belly, sinew back, and I don't know what kind of wood was used for the core.  I can take some better pictures tonight to see if anyone has any guesses.

Offline simson

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2015, 03:38:37 pm »
sorry to say that, but this bow is not a primitve bow! This is a fiberglass bow backed with a non function mixture of sinew on one side and a epoxi horn granules on the other. The item 'biocomposite' is an irrtating item.

I have seen and shot some of these bows. Grozer does this kind of bows in different designs.
The work fine and are super performers for a good prize, but like said in no way a primitve bow.
You can see the glass strips at the sides.
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline Pat B

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2015, 04:40:18 pm »
If this bow does in fact have fiberglass I'll have to move it to "Around the Campfire".
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline mullet

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2015, 07:38:55 pm »
I thought it looked like what James Parker is making he calls a "Hybrid", except his has real horn.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline Ranasp

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2015, 10:58:47 pm »
What?  On the Grozer site they made it pretty clear which bows were made of wood/horn/sinew, and which ones were modern fiberglass, something "L-series".  They said this one is made of horn, wood, and sinew, and looking at it I'm not seeing fiberglass anywhere.  I have two Ben Pearson recurves and they have glass, so I'm really not seeing it.  Where do you mean on the sides?  Here's a pic of the side, I'm seeing wood (lightest color in center) another wood (darker brown, on both sides, has a definite grain) and the horn/flat sinew.

Feeling like I got kicked in the gut.  :/


Offline simson

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2015, 01:08:13 am »
Sorry, really didn't want to affect you - just wanted to tell the truth.
If you do a google search 'grozer biocomposite fiberglass' you will find a lot of answers.
For example: http://paleoplanet69529.yuku.com/reply/496141/Safe-temperature-for-using-Grozer-Biocomposite-bows#.Vekgp3tARE4
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline caveman2533

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2015, 11:10:28 am »
from the website's description it appear he does not mention the fiber reinforcement is Fiberglass, the above link is enlightening tho especially the last  several comments.

Offline Pat B

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2015, 02:28:56 pm »
If it is all natural materials we'll put it back in the horn bow section. Maybe you should contact Grozer and ask them directly.
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline JoJoDapyro

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2015, 02:35:02 pm »
Extra III. (composite or horn bow) finish: This is the kind that is the exact copy of the original, made with the same method as a thousand years ago, and consists of only natural components. The core of the bow is joined together of assorted kinds of wood. The inside (that is on the archer's side) is made of horn plating. The outside is made of tendon strings and fishbladder-glue, layered and shrunk onto the bow. These layers are sensitive to moisture, so it is covered with birch-bark or thin leather, which we decorate with original painted motives, on demand. The handle and tips are stiffened with horn or bone, and strengthened at the joinings with tying. The horn plating is made of the horn of Hungarian grey steer, water buffalo, ibex, wild sheep horn, and it's an expensive material, because there's not too much of it left. The fishbladder-glue can only be cooked from the airbladder of the sturgeon, a living fossil, that is also scarce these days. Actually, it isn't cooked, but we extract the glue from it with a "cold" process, soaking it in different kinds of materials. This way the quantity of the glue is small, but for that the quality is excellent. There is several reasons for using sturgeonbladder-glue for bowmaking for example: 1/ very strong gluing capability 2/ it won't get brittle or lose it's elasticity even after decades 3/ it is easy to work with. Obviously applying the tendon layer has got its own tricks. Before sinew must be soaked in various materials, impregnated, then only after this apply to the bow. This is why it is so unbreakable and resistant on the outer side of the bow. Besides, wood and horn must be treated, otherwise it would break easily in the bow. The horn-bow, the great invention of the Scythians, as well as the saddle, and later the Avar's stirrups. The rest of the eastern cultures took the knowledge of bowmaking from the nomads.
The making of a bow this way can take up to 10-12 months, drying of the wood not included.
An average composite bow has got the draw weight of 65 lbs, but we have orders on 45 lbs and 90 lbs bows either.


So if it is an Extra III it IS all natural.


Biocomposite laminated bows.
New technology.
Actually it combines the laminated, the TRH laminated, the TRH Extra II laminated bows.
And to some extent the extra III bows as well. The bows made by this technology consist of the following materials: the middle layers of wood, the inner layer of pressed horn, while the outer layer of pressed sinew plate. These two layers are glued to the wooden plate by modern glue and the glued layer gets a fibre strengthening.
Due to these biocomposite materials and the modern technology these bows are faster then the simple laminated bows. They are appreciably soft and without any resonance when drawing.
These bows give almost the same shooting experience than a hornbow and even their appearance is similar, although the biocomposite bows are flatter.
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

mikekeswick

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2015, 04:14:42 pm »
What Grozer is doing with these bows sticks in the throat somewhat. It's all marketing so he can sell more bows, i've seen x-ray pictures of one of his bows that shows screws in the recurves, broken bows with glass in the core etc....
Nothing wrong with making a bow out of whatever you want but don't try to deliberately misinform people on their construction.

Offline mullet

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2015, 04:39:41 pm »
The horn is ground into a powder and mixed with resins. I don't know what they are doing with the "pressed sinew".
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline mullet

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #13 on: September 04, 2015, 05:05:29 pm »
I just got off the phone with James and he said he has two in his shop, now. I asked about the pressed sinew and he told me it is sinew and resins mixed, that way you can say it's sinew backed.

James said he will come on tonight and explain the process.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline Ranasp

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Re: Finally got one!
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2015, 10:03:47 pm »
Thanks for the input, I'm not quite as horrified by a "fiber strengthening", even if it's not 100% natural it's still beautiful, and I was able to instinctively shoot with it better than with my BP recurve.  I'm pretty disturbed about the horn thing though, if that's what they're doing with this kind of bow.