Author Topic: How good is good enough for splice  (Read 6897 times)

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Offline sleek

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2015, 08:07:11 pm »
Erc is light and compression strong....  it may work. Unfortunately it also splits easy. Pick a wood that doesnt split well. If you want I can draw you a pic or better yet, post a pic of an underlay I did....
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline Mo_coon-catcher

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2015, 08:32:21 pm »
After reading a couple times I think I have a pretty good picture. Though I'd still like to see a pic. I'm thinking like you are on ERC for the belly and was thinking since the draw is only #40 that walnut wouldn't be bad for the back. Getting a sort of cosmopolitan look. Like this molle I did this spring.

Kyle

Offline sleek

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2015, 09:27:23 pm »
Yup, like that. Though I think you ment Neapolitan...
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline sleek

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2015, 09:42:31 pm »


Like this only larger....
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline sleek

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2015, 09:43:59 pm »
And I turned the wood so its grain is 90 degrees to the bow wood. Makes it even stronger...
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline sleek

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2015, 09:44:57 pm »
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline Mo_coon-catcher

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #21 on: August 22, 2015, 10:36:38 pm »
Yup, that's the word I was after. That's exactly what I was picturing. I like the carving on the tip. I think if I use the lighter woods I can get some fancy stuff going on and not add substantial mass.

mikekeswick

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2015, 01:48:52 am »
There is virtually no stress at the tips that's why we can make them like 1/4 inch wide and them not snap off. You don't need an underlay or wrapping. Your joint looks good so I wouldn't stress over it  :) One of the bows I did this on was a static recurve of 69# - no wrap, no problems and it has plenty of reflex and the recurves are close to 90 degs.
The picture you put up with the underlay of erc sure looks pretty but you I bet it wouldn't bend even without it. When you make a molly like that the lever only needs to be 1/8th thicker than the end of the working limb to not bend. Think about a working limb that has a stiff spot and how little wood you need to remove to make it work. Double the width to double draw weight but only an increase of an 1/8th of total thickness to double draw weight.

Offline sleek

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2015, 02:08:15 am »
Mike, I agree with most of what you say but I dont think it applies to the forces a splice is under. A splice is under torsion stress and without enough surface area absorbing ( read distributing ) the stress over a large enough area, the stress will concentrate in one spot and the joint will fail. There is for a fact a minimum amount of surface area a joint must have per a set amount of stress or the joint will for a fact fail. More glueing surface area equates to less pounds of force per unit of surface area. His joint hasnt the needed surface area in my opinion ( I cant quantify that its just experience, my own, however lacking that may be compared to others ) and is likely to fail. Increasing the surface area to distibute the torsion forces into an underlay which converts the torsion force into a compression and tension,  reduces joint stress and allows for better chances of survivability.

The thickness of the joint in this situation, aside from allowing surface area for glue, doesnt matter.  Yes, he needs it not to bend, because working splices are much more difficult, and for certain he probably has enough thickness to prevent bending. Beyond that thickness ist a factor. The factors here that are most important are distibution of stresses and trapping that splice over an underlay.
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline sleek

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2015, 02:10:27 am »
Mike, I got lots of respect for you, I sure hope you dont view my reply as anything except as an explanation of why I understand what I know to be true, and not an attack on your own statements. 
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline Mo_coon-catcher

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2015, 11:00:09 am »
If the bow was going to stay in my hands when finished I would see how well it would hold on its own. Just because is going to someone else I want to remove all chances I can of breaking. That molle was working good on its own before te underlay, it was completely to add a color contrast. I will say that I'm learning a lot

Kyle

mikekeswick

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2015, 12:55:38 pm »
Mike, I got lots of respect for you, I sure hope you dont view my reply as anything except as an explanation of why I understand what I know to be true, and not an attack on your own statements.

Not even slightly  ;) and thank you for being so polite.
I like a good debate better than i like most other things, if people can't disagree and discuss those disagreements with mutual respect then there is little point to these forums in my eyes.
I still think it would be fine without an underlay purely because i've done it myself a few times now. The stresses at a straight limbed bows tips are very small. I'll see if I can find that recurve I mentioned before and show you some pics.

mikekeswick

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2015, 01:57:24 pm »




Offline Mo_coon-catcher

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #28 on: August 25, 2015, 10:13:01 am »
That's awesome. I think I need to work on my joint to make them even conpareable with yours. Does it seem like there is much strain on the joint? How long is you joint? Mine came out to right about 2". I'm not sure if that's quite enough to hold or not on its own. I'll eat to go any further until I get some opinions. Until then I'm going to start making the over and underlays incase that's te route I go. And if it makes much difference I did carve them at a bit of an angle to help align the string with the handle. Probably a half inch or so. The other side looks almost identical to the side in the pic. Sorry if it's a little hard to see. I can take another if I need to.

Kyle

Offline Onebowonder

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Re: How good is good enough for splice
« Reply #29 on: August 25, 2015, 05:25:48 pm »
Two inches is actually a bit more than four on a V-Splice, ...which is nubbins close to not quite enough in my opinion.  I'd certainly thread and epoxy wrap it, which is probably as strong or stronger than the overlays/underlays idea.  It's insurance in any case, but I'd be likely to do it myself especially if I was sending the bow off to someone else.

OneBow