Friction Fire

[Outbackbob48]

Nc , nice lookin kit, looks like ya got a nice long bow(rib) I have seen some that looked awfully short.
Ed, I have to agree with ya about trying to be calm and relaxed, when i muscle it I usally fail. I just recieved 80 bdft. of white cedar, guess I should have enough hearth boards for awhile, MY winter project white cedar strip canoe. Just what i need to go with my trapping, hunting braintanning flintknapping foraging addictions. Bob Ed PM me your addy and i'll send ya some chaga to play with. Bob

[Forest_Farmer]

That is a good looking kit NC, nice job!.

Bob, it does sound like you will have plenty of spare cedar for bow drill kits and please send pics of the canoe as your building it.  That will be a way cool winter project.  I will send over my contact info in a PM.  Thank you very much for the chaga, I look forward to trying some.

Also, I was thinking that it would be fun to have a primitive fire class at the TN classic this spring.  I'm collecting a lot of different spindles and will make up some hearth boards to give out.  It was such a good feeling to learn this skill when Naked Feet "Tony" held a class this summer at Elm Hall, so I think it would be great to pass it on. 
 
Let me know if you're interested, and if a few of us band together we should have enough skills and materials to have a nice class.
Ed

[Ed Brooks]

So far my only friction fire i have been able to make was from bambo, it sparkes pretty easy, however don't grow in my neck of the woods. So for now i carry my bic. 
I have seen several people saying when using a hand drill to try pitch for better downward pressure. you can also put a notch in the top end use a short piece of cordage with a loop on each end to place your thumbs in for pressure.
Thanks to all who put advice on here. I'm looking forward to giving this more time. Ed

[Outbackbob48]

I just went and tried a pic of Eastern white cedar for my hearth board and worked just fine with a horseweed spindle, I think it was a little better than western red cedar that i have been using. Bob

[Forest_Farmer]

I tried a piece of white pine today for a hearth board, it was a split from a commercial 2 x 4 .  Had a horse weed spindle and I could not get an ember.  Tried all my tricks, and still no joy.  The white pine was very soft so I'm not sure what the problem was.  It glazed over quickly and it was very thought to get any heat.
Oh well, now I know.

Ed

[Outbackbob48]

Ed, I worked construction all my life and most of the 2x4 were stamped Hem Fir and are also kiln dried, not sure if kiln drying matters.I never could fiqure out exactly what type of wood Hem Fir was but the ones here were not white pines, not saying yours are not. A friend of mine swears by using white pine dug up from stumps,(roots)  I  have gotten coals from  white pine but with mixed results, Some pcs were to hard and seem to have resin or pitch others were alot softer and worked fine. Same friend has given me some Paw-Paw and it worked pretty good and worked real good with bow drills, I have also used some of the wife's Rose of Sharon I trimmed a few dead branches off and like the Pine some worked excellent and others were just to hard, Someone told me to throw those harder pcs outside an let them weather and get gray looking then dry back out and retry. If your up for a challenge get ya some beech spindle and hearth board and see how ya do with the bow drill, make sure and pack an extra sandwich ya may need it.    Chaga is on it's way. Bob

[DC]

Hem Fir is a label that includes Hemlock or one of the true Firs. It is not Douglas fir.
http://www.wwpa.org/SPECIESPRODUCTS/HemFir/tabid/299/Default.aspx

[Outbackbob48]

Thanks DC, if I'm not careful I learn something new everyday Kinda had a feeling it was something like that, I knew it wasn't a cross breed tree  like a BeaglePoo .   Bob

[Forest_Farmer]

Thanks for the Info Bob & DC. 

 You are probably right on the 2 x 4 wood type.  I just assumed they were white pine, but like you said, you learn something new everyday, if your not careful.  Learning is one of the best things about being on the "top side" of dirt, and one  of the best things about getting older. lol

 Bob, Ill pass on trying the beach wood for now. After my lack of success with the fir hearth board, and a failed attempt this morning, my tail is now between my legs, and my paws are sore. 

 On this mornings failed attempt, I tried a new horse weed spindle that I collected on last night's hunt. This piece of horse weed was taller and lighter than ones I collected earlier this year. I also noticed that the pithy core was much larger.  That ratio of pithy core to harder outer shell seems to make a difference in getting an ember.  It seems like on a 5/16" dia spindle, if you have a core of more than 1/8" dia, it may be too soft.

It was easy to get make dust and get smoke, but because the core was so soft, the spindle and white cedar hearth board would turn into dust before it got hot enough for an ember.  This could also be a case where I tried to rush it, and applied to much pressure, not sure. 

I'm almost certain that a person with better techniques than me, may have gotten an ember.  I will post some pics later showing the end grain of a spindle that worked good, and one that failed.  Let me know if you have ever noticed the same thing. 

What's great about this thread is collectively we are identifying many of the variables, and details that account for success and failure.  We're eliminating some of the "black magic" of making a friction fire.  Good stuff!

Enjoy your day!
Ed

[Outbackbob48]

Ed, if ya just picked the horseweed yesterday maybe still a little damp? I have also noticed as my spindles get shorter sometimes pith thickness or outside wall covering changes and results vary, Like I said before the very next thing NA learned was how to carry a coal or suffered thru some cold nights. I just got a coal with mugwort on white cedar and then turned around a failed with a mullien spindle on same hearth board. I hear ya about tail between legs, Dang humbling and it don't take long. Bob

[Forest_Farmer]

Bob, you could be right about the dampness.  It's rained here off and on for the last week. I'll let the spindle I failed with dry out for a week and then give it a try again.
You are also correct about carrying an ember.  I also believe that if they got a good working kit together they would take care of it.
I plan to make a nice elm bark tubular case / quiver for my kit, complete with a lid to keep moisture out.

[Outbackbob48]

Just tried a new combonation today Cattail spindle on white cedar hearth an hate to admit it but I failed to get a coal.  I had plenty of dust and quite a bit of smoke, but I ran out of gas a tad to early, one other thing that I believe cattail base are a little thicker diamiter than I like. My spindle was a full 1/2" dia. and may have led to my early running out of steam. i have been told that just a few inches of the base is good after that gets to soft and fiberous as you wear down your spindles. i will let ya know after a little more expermenting. Going out to shed to flesh some deer hides, That will help the old arm strength Bob

[PEARL DRUMS]

I got my first hand drill coal a few weeks ago. That was very cool. I used a yucca spindle and basswood hearth. It was surprisingly fast. I think my good buddy Josh may have soaked the yucca in jet fuel before he sent it. That stuff is amazing.

[Forest_Farmer]

Its back yard bonfire weather down here in TN, and I've been making all my fires with the bow drill.  It's a bit tougher when it's very cold and damp, but still doable. 
My luck lately hasn't been as good with the hand drill.  Lots of smoke but my hands / arms Peter out before I get a coal.

I've recently had fun with a bow drill using a large 3/4" mullein spindle on white cedar hart board.  You talk about a quick coal,,,,seconds.  I will try to make a " mini bow drill set" with a normal 5/16" Dia horseweed spindle and white cedar hearth board.  I think if the spindle is short and you have a good top bearing block you could do it with breaking the spindle.
I'll keep you posted.

[PEARL DRUMS]

Ed, Josh sent me what I would call a leather thong for the hand drill. It hooks over the top and your index fingers go in each loop. It wont allow your hands to ride downward so you have constant friction.