Author Topic: Haskett  (Read 3389 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JoJoDapyro

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,504
  • Subscription Number PM109294
Haskett
« on: August 07, 2015, 11:20:10 am »
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline Tower

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,298
Re: Haskett
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2015, 12:05:05 pm »
I love that web site.  Lots of great reading! 
He who sacrifices freedom for a security deserves neither one.  Benjamin Franklin!

Offline Zuma

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,324
Re: Haskett
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2015, 01:38:01 pm »
Thanks for posting JoJo. One of my favorite subjects.
I firmly believe the Western Stemmed Tradition was a sort of
pre Clovis culture. I think they came in from Alaska through the
Ice Free Corridor. I think they invented the Clovis fluted points when
they encountered elephants in the Great basin.
 The rest is pre-history. >:D
Zuma
If you are a good detective the past is at your feet. The future belongs to Faith.

Offline JoJoDapyro

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,504
  • Subscription Number PM109294
Re: Haskett
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2015, 02:17:20 pm »
It makes me want to make some Haskett points tonight. I acquired some (40 pounds) of Utah obsidian last night! As well as some solid looking "Petrified" wood. It looks more like opalized to me, but what do I know?
If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.
27 inch draw, right handed. Bow building and Knapping.

Offline Zuma

  • Member
  • Posts: 4,324
Re: Haskett
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2015, 03:57:39 pm »
This is a good site to accompany your Haskett link JoJO.
I like it except for the South American content.
Monte Verde especially.
Zuma

From Mesa to Monte Verde - Paleoindian & Other Archaeological ...

www.ele.net/kunz/mesamonte.htm

 Similarto From Mesa to Monte Verde - Paleoindian & Other Archaeological ...
Apr 28, 2011 ... The Irwin Sluiceway site lies about 125 kilometers west of Mesa. ...
If you are a good detective the past is at your feet. The future belongs to Faith.

Offline Tower

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,298
Re: Haskett
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2015, 09:17:52 am »
I think that would make a great point of the month.
He who sacrifices freedom for a security deserves neither one.  Benjamin Franklin!

AncientTech

  • Guest
Re: Haskett
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2015, 11:32:40 am »
Joe, if you are interested in the subject of Haskett, there is a study floating around on the web, somewhere, which covers studies of the use/wear attributes found on Haskett points.

From what I remember - vaguely remember - it might be believed that the Haskett was used more as a knife, than a projectile point.  If so, then the long end could have been wrapped in leather.  It has been a long time since I looked at the study.  So, don't quote me on this.

Also, if you are interested in points that share this morphological shape, the El Jobo of South America shares a similar shape.  But, one of the things that can be noted is that while the El Jobo was made in the same area as fluted fishtail points, the fluted fishtail points seem to be always made of high grade materials, while the El Jobo points appear to be made from very low grade materials.

My take on this is that the fluted fishtail points could have been used much in the same manner of Clovis points, in terms of butchering, cutting, and resharpening, while the El Jobo points would not have been so prone to the same type of re-sharpening process, since they were made from low grade materials.  That being said, I believe that the bi-pointed El Jobo points were found at the Tagua Tagua kill site (if I have the name correct), and they show to have been used as projectile points, since they were found in situ, or embedded in the animal's bones.

That being said, what can be seen on the Haskett points is that they were made on better grade materials than El Jobo points.  And, Haskett points also sometimes exhibit outrepasse flaking, which is a diagnostic trait, used to identify Clovis, and other paleoindian, types of flaking. 

You can see some outrepasse flaking examples, on Haskett points, on the Arrowheadology forum.

That being said, I believe that there is at least one archaeologist who has argued that the Lerma "point" - another bi-pointed creature - is really a knife, and not a point at all.  And, it is believed to be a paleoindian knife.  I do not know the precise dates on Lerma.  But, geographically speaking, it would be to the south of Haskett.

So, there could be a bi-pointed knife tradition in North America, that is not being fully recognized, in terms of the use of bi-pointed knives.  This is not a point (no pun intended) that I would argue, though, because I don't know.  It is simply a tentative possibility, especially regarding Lerma, and Haskett. 


"Bipointed leaf-shaped projectile points, known as Lerma by some authors, appear to have played an important role among the Paleo-Indian hunters of Middle America.  They have been found under conditions indicating Pleistocene antiquity at three localities...and directly associated with mammoth in Santa Izabel Iztapan, in the Valley of Mexico."
  (Handbook of Middle American Indians, Volume 1: Natural Environment and Early Culture, 2014)

So, while people are making comparisons between Haskett, El Jobo, and Sluiceway, I am not sure that adequate attention has been given to the Lerma, and Lerma-like tools, to the south. 

Anyway, this ties in to something else.  The Uto-Aztecan family of dialects extends from the Great Basin area, down into Central Mexico.  Yet, with the advent of the archaic era, people in this span of the continent were forced to adopt a lifestyle based on local resources.  In the Great Basin, there are around a dozen food cycles per year that the inhabitants needed to tap into, in order to survive, year after year.  Life in the Great Basin was quite different than life in other areas. 

Meanwhile, the people all the way down into Central Mexico developed different lifestyles, based upon local resources.  So, it does not look like there has been much movement of people, since the advent of the archaic era.  Wherever people were at, they were forced to develop highly specialized lifestyles, in order to extract what they needed from their respective environments, during the archaic era.

That being said, it appears that at the end of the Paleoindian era, the makers of V-based fluted points shot up into Alaska, via the corridor that opened, at the end of the Ice Age.  So, the question that remains in my mind is whether or not the fluted point makers, who arrived in Alaska, took with them a bi-pointed knife tradition, like the Haskett, and the Lerma?  If so, would it be the Mesa/Sluiceway points?  I don't know the answer to this.  I guess it would come down to more information, and dates. 

So, if you are interested in Haskett, you may want to make a comparative study to Lerma, Sluiceway, and Mesa.  But, in the case of El Jobo, I think it could be argued that it was simply a projectile point, flaked from a really low grade of stone, that could not be worked into a fluted fishtail point, as the fluted fishtail point was probably worked via a different flaking technology than El Jobo.  And, for this reason, I believe that one would find late stage outrepasse flakes on Haskett points, and maybe even Lerma points, but not on El Jobo points. 

Also, if the paleoindians did take both V-based fluted points, and bi-pointed knives, up into Alaska, then I would have to wonder whether or not there is any linguistic indication that the Uto-Aztecan language stock was also carried up there, and "planted", during that early period of time.  If so, then there could be some correlation between the languages found in Alaska, and the Uto-Aztecan stock. 

In the bigger picture, my view is that some correlation that can be made between the linguistic stocks found over large areas, and the dispersion of certain lithic types, over very large areas, during the paleoindian period.  My opinion is that both reflect Ice Age migration routes. 

But, hey, what do I know.  I am just an avocational lithic technologist.  Lol! 

For whatever it is worth,

Ancient Tech   

« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 11:49:55 am by AncientTech »