Issue With Bow & I'm new to Bowyering

[TyPierce]

Hello Everyone,

I recently thought about building a bow. So I have done some research and started out. I decided that my first bow was just going to be cheap so I could learn as I made it.
I am trying a mollegabet design, and I may be wrong for doing so, but I thought ehh... why not it looks cool. I'm using a piece of maple that I got from the local big box store. The wood grain looks really good, and there were no knots that I could see.  The design came out really well, It is 65" long 2.5" wide by 3/4" thick (before getting it to floor tiller). After a lot of cutting scraping and sanding, I got it to a brace height of around 2" with the tillering looking fairly equal (to my untrained eye lol). I was working it to a draw of about 19 inches, on a tillering tree I made, I checked the weight with a tillering stick and a bathroom scale it was about 44lbs @ 19"-20". I only want it to be around 50lbs @ 28" (my draw length) so I realize I have more to take off. Also I backed it with titebond II and drywall fiber glass mesh to be cheap, first bow after all, it does not need to be really cool looking it just needs to teach me.

Now here is my question I'm getting a little bit of string follow, which is not the big deal, I am also getting a couple lines of wrinkles on the upper limb about 3" or so above the fade. I tried to do a bit of research and figured out it is called crystals? I believe that is what I am dealing with. There are a few wrinkles that are very noticeable when it is drawn back to 18", but it is less noticeable when it is at brace height of about 2".

Now is there anything I can do about that or am I pretty much out of luck and should I start over on a new piece? I do have another cut out done that I am going to make for my fiancee out of red oak so if I do lose this it will suck but it is not the end of the world.

Thanks again for checking this out and if anyone can provide me with some wisdom I would really appreciate it.

[Weylin]

Sorry to say but those chrysals are the doom of the bow. The wood is failing in those spots and is collapsing. If it was mine, I would stop shooting it. Be proud that you got your first bow shooting and don't be disheartened. My advice is to make your next bow as a bend through the handle D bow. It is a simple and forgiving design that will produce a fine shooting bow. We will be happy to guide you through the process if you post your progress here. Have fun and good luck.

[wizardgoat]

You need to post some pics to get some real advice, but it sounds like you stressed your bow before it was ready for it. Never pull a bow any further when you see a weak spot. With experience you start to recognize weak spots even before they're weak spots.
If your lb thickness was over all even, then you probably weren't getting much bending mid limb and out and over stressed your inner limbs.
Some guys carry on after chrysals show up, I wouldn't.
On your next one, you can trap the back and or heat treat the belly

[Josh B]

First off welcome aboard!  Don't be surprised or offended if this gets moved to around the campfire.  The reason being that fiberglass of any sort is not allowed in the bow section(all natural materials only).  I would not recommend a molly design for your first go, but we're a bit past that point. Pictures help a lot in diagnosis, but I would assume that you have a pretty significant hinge where the chrysals formed.  It takes a lot to chrysal good quality maple.  The shorter working limbs of the Molly design would only serve to  exacerbate the problems of a flawed tiller.  As I said pictures at unbraced, braced and drawn would help tremendously.  My advice would be to go ahead and tiller it on out for the practice.  Keep in mind that chrysals are an indicator that the wood is being stressed beyond its limits and usually indicate a hinge.  It may still make a shooter even with the chrysals, but it will likely be a short lived one.  Don't think of it as a failure but rather an important learning experience.  Keep at it and once again, welcome!  Josh

[JW_Halverson]

On one hand, if you stop right now on this project where it has yet to throw an arrow, it is technically not a bow.  Grab another piece of wood and continue your efforts, thus giving yourself a "reset" so that you can claim your first bow was a success, if it should turn out well!   

By all means, feel free to continue on this project, none the less.  Nothing teaches more about how to do things right than failing.  At this point, you have nothing but opportunity to learn in front of you.  Del the Cat calls this mentality "mending beyond repair" because you just keep chasing one fix after another until it utterly fails!  That will clear the decks for the next effort! 

And while the urge to build something really cool on the first go is understandable, I would recommend you try a different style first.  I urge you to look into a "bend in the handle" bow.  Your maple 1x2 from the lumberyard would excel at this design as well.  Go about 62" tip to tip.  Make the dead center of the bow 1.5" wide and taper the tips down to .5" wide.  You can use a straightedge or yardstick to draw the lines.  Then use a rasp or heavy sandpaper to round over the edges of the corners on whatever side you choose to be the back.  Start taking long licks on the belly from grip area all the way to the tips.  Take a matching number off the other limb...floor tiller, repeat. 

Bendy handle bows are great at teaching your eye to find the right tiller because they are a simple circular tiller, a pure arc.  On the tillering tree, you hold up something round (like a cd or a beverage can) and move it back and forth until in perspective, they match.  It will become crazy obvious where it bends too much and where it bends too little. 

Or choose something else, we'll pitch in and give you tips and tricks for whatever you try. 

[bubby]

Well you've gotten some great advice that you probably didn't want to hear😒 but it is what it is, pics are your friend building bows please post some if you can, molly isn't the easiest first bow to build but it can be done but 2-1/2" wide is extreme if that is what you want to build let us know and we can help with dimensions and anything else

[Del the cat]

There's an old joke about the guy driving in Ireland...
He pulls up and asks a guy at the road side
"Can you tell me the way the way to Ballybogy?"
the guy replies...
"Ah, to be sure If I were you I wouldn't start from here!"
(stereotypes of other nationalities are also available)

That sums up where you are with the bow.
I've been making bows for about 55 years... I've just made my first Mollegabet... dunno why people insist on trying it as their first bow... total madness. Don't back a bow with glass... if you want to back it for security use rawhide.
All the glass has done is ensure the belly failed!
Keep it simple...
Make it 6" longer than you think sensible and 50% wider.
Aim for 40# draw weight and if you are luck you'll end up with a shootable bow at about 20# 
Take what you've learned as good experience and move on.
You've learned more than all the 'armchair expert's who never even try
I often say making a bow is easy... making a good bow is hard.
Aim for something simple and not too ambitious to start with, even a well made 35# bow can be fast. One of my fave's is such a bow.
Del
Yeah... "mended beyond repair"... I make myself laugh sometimes

[sleek]

The glass has certainly encouraged the faileure but may not be the cause. A hinge in the fade is easy with that design. Keep on with this bow. Get both limbs tillered evenly and learn how and what a good even tiller looks like, even if the bow comes to 15#@30". It doesnt matter,  you are learning. Finish this bow and learn all you can. Then take jws advice and build a more simple design.

[Gordon]

You can keep on with the bow if you like, but compression fractures often go pretty deep into the wood so you may be wasting your time.

[TyPierce]

Thanks for all the info guys. I got a couple of pics that show it at brace height and at 20".

Brace Height


Drawn to 20"


I think I will finish it just so I can get the experience. Then it can be a wall warrior, a good piece of decoration. At the same time though I think I will start a new more basic bow. Maybe the one JW was talking about, it sounds like a good start. I really don't mind failing at first. I feel you can learn a lot from failing. That being said I don't want to fail every time . So I will definitely be talking to you guys a fair amount, when I can, so I can learn more from all of you.
Thanks again for all of your support! Also if you see anything that pops out at you in these photos just let me know.
Also is this the proper place to post bows in the works? If not, where do I post?
Thanks again everyone I really appreciate it.

[JoJoDapyro]

It has been discussed that wall hangers are a bad place to put broken bows, as someone sometime may think that it is just a cool old bow, string it, and get hurt. Molies are tough. The guys who make them well are true craftsman! My personal opinion is to make an unbacked bow first. You may break some, it happens!

[Del the cat]

I've taken the liberty of marking up your picture to show where I think the trouble is. All the bend seems to be between the red lines, the rest of the limb isn't doing anything much.
You can compare and contrast with the Molle' I built on my blog, you can follow the build along and watch the tiller progress.
It start here:-
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/mollegabet.html
The next post is more interesting as it shows a short video of the first flexing and explains the why and wherefore of what I'm doing. It also give you a chance to see if you can see what I'm seeing.
You can follow the process right to the final distance shots.
The hardest thing about tillering is training your eye to really see where the bow is bending. Flexing it and watching it move dynamically helps.
It's the difference between merely looking and actually seeing. Some of the things we see are very subtle, and we won't all agree anyway...
It's an art more than a science.

I think you've made the common mistake with a Molle'... it has short working limbs so you need to really make sure the whole of that limb is working not just the first few inches.
Del

[wizardgoat]

Yep, all your bend is happening right out of the fades, the left worse than the right.
Such a small working limb area, very little room for error.
An un backed pyramid bow would be a better start.  You could keep going on, yes you would learn more, but for me a bow like that becomes a safety hazard. I don't want to flinch every time I draw a bow

[TyPierce]

Thanks Del that actually makes a lot of sense, because that is right where the crystals are (right limb). I can really see it now with the marks you put. Also with the pics of your bow, and how it bends. That will definitely help me with the next one. By the way that bow looks beautiful, nice job.

Wizzardgoat,
Yeah I was starting to think the same thing after my last post. I think if I do anything to the bow I will just try to get a slightly better bend. So I can get a better feel of how it works (tillering that is). Then I will probably remove the nocks, and set it a-side so no one can string it. I maybe able to do something with it later just not make it into a bow.

Also sorry to everyone for posting this original post here. I was not sure where to post it and thought that this would be the proper place.

Thanks again everyone you have been a big help in making me understand things better. I feel ever so slightly less green. 

[DC]

Chrysals not chrystals No "T". Sorry, my Mom was an English teacher and I can't help myself.
As you were

You can also call them frets, like on a guitar.

Again sorry