Author Topic: an interesting lesson  (Read 6436 times)

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Offline paulsemp

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2015, 08:35:59 pm »
here you go

Offline E. Jensen

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2015, 08:40:57 pm »
Wow that's fascinating.  One of my professors is a tree physiologist, I'll ask him about this. 

Btw techinically the sapwood and heartwood are both hardwood :P

Offline paulsemp

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2015, 08:55:41 pm »
I guess all you got me on is the fact I'm not a very good proofreader after doing voice command on my phone

Offline sleek

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2015, 09:39:25 pm »
I have cut Osage where the bark is loose and the sapwood is rotted, and I have also cut Osage where the bark is very much so intact to straight up hardwood right underneath the bark. don't have any scientific proof nor the proper terms but I can tell you I have seen bark attached to hardwood therefore making me believe there is a very big difference between sap wood rot away and sapwood turned to hardwood. I have never cut a live Osage tree where there was no sapwood.  I am also a firm believer that when sapwood supposedly turns to hard wood I think that wood is no good. I always take off at least the first quarter to half inch of dead standing.

The bark was well attached to the wood. The wood is very brittle. Idk what to think other than " never again."
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline E. Jensen

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2015, 11:10:18 pm »
Is that two separate logs of both ends of the same?

Offline paulsemp

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2015, 11:26:24 pm »
two separate logs. the one has sapwood all the way through the other one is all heart wood. both where dead standing trees for a good amount of time with bugs. also both came out of a row in between corn fields.

Offline Chief RID

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2015, 05:41:59 am »
Being a student of nature, both in academic and in life, and being a know it all by nature; I ponder such things with great interest until I finally realize, it just does not matter. I always think it does until I remember either God has a sense of humor or more likely the devil has a plan. Make bows and let the wonders of God's creation for us be just that, wonders. Much good comes from study of such things but much wasted time comes from it too. I guess I am running out of time for such things. You who have the time. Rock on.

I say all this because the growth of a tree and the life cycles of creatures have always confounded me and in that confoundedness I find closeness to the Creator, every time.

Where does the bark come from?

Offline joachimM

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Coercing a BL to turn sapwood into heartwood
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2015, 03:19:49 am »
Sorry to chime in so late.
It is possible to find heartwood under the bark, but only of a dead tree. Moreover, this is from a tree that slowly died and turned its sapwood into heartwood.
I've recently started to coerce black locust into doing this, in order to have more heartwood and have lower crowns on small diameter trees. BL often has quite a lot of sapwood, which can amount to 1/3 of the wood in 15 cm diameter trees.

During late winter, I make two circular cuts at the base of the trunk with a chainsaw, ensuring that the phloem and cambium are completely cut through.
This doesn't stop upward flow of water from the roots (which happens through the sapwood), but it stops the downward flow of secondary metabolites, sugars, starches and so on from the leaves to the roots.
To make leaves and new shoots, a tree will use the starches and sugars stored in the roots and the sapwood of the trunk. When those in the roots aren't available anymore (flow is interrupted), it will need to bank on those from the sapwood. In the mean time, it will produce fewer leaves, it cannot make new roots (as there is no energy transfer to the roots anymore).
 The interior sapwood rings will now start to die off (they are being emptied from starches and sugars), and the natural process of transformation from sapwood to heartwood (with deposition of secondary metabolites that darken the wood) will take place, but at an increased rate, whereas new sapwood is hardly produced anymore.

By the end of the summer, most such trees are dead, and their sapwood has been largely transformed into heartwood. You can now peel off the bark from a BL and use it as the back of your bow. It may still have one or two sapwood rings. which is fine.


Offline Poggins

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2015, 09:16:06 am »
I've seen a couple osage trees like Sleek's , the area wasn't dead but had a very thin layer under the bark , one of the trees had been in a wildfire and one side of the tree had been scorched pretty good and new growth had all but stopped , the other was where two trees grew up against each other , one tree was only about 10" and the other was over 30" , the smaller tree looked similar to the burnt tree where it was against the larger tree and it had very tight rings on that side .
Both were still good wood , the scorched tree had good rings but the othe had to be chased with a scraper .

Offline sleek

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2015, 09:45:38 am »
Faaaaaaaaaaaascinating
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others

Offline bowmo

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2015, 10:31:40 am »
Never experienced it in Osage, but I cut and split some walnut that continued to convert sapwood to heartwood after it was cut. The splits had a very defined line between the two and has like 50% sapwood and 50% heartwood,  but when I split them further like 10 years later the inside looked way dif that the outside and there was a lot more heartwood. Looked a lot like Greg's new osage bow.

mikekeswick

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2015, 02:02:23 pm »
joachimM - That's a genius idea!  8) Thanks for sharing it as I have a few osage trees growing here now and I don't know how long I can leave them alone for! I have a 'mother' plant in my greenhouse that i've been taking shoots off and planting out for a few years now.

Offline sleek

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Re: an interesting lesson
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2015, 04:29:05 pm »
That was indeed " an interesting lesson ".
Tread softly and carry a bent stick.

Dont seek your happiness through the approval of others