water curing wood

[Drewster]

JW, I certainly appreciate what you're saying about wood that has been seasoned for decades......premium stuff.  I have some walnut that has been air drying for 25 years with beautiful, beautiful color.  You will NOT find kiln dried walnut with that kind of rich color.

Have you ever contacted the US Forest Products lab for the technical info you're looking for?  They are a wealth of information and research on wood.  I have had them ID wood for me microscopically in the past.  Don't know if they will still do that or not.

Buddy, wood dries from the outside in.  If you cut a cross section piece and then check the MC of the different areas you will find out the the center will have the highest MC.......until that piece has time to completely equalize to its environment........and even then it will change seasonally.  That's why you have to seal the back of most bow woods once you remove the bark.  The outer layers will dry faster than the internal rings, shrink more quickly and open up checks.

[bubby]

Drew that was actually what i meant to write, if you soak keeping the outer wood wet it should reduce checking some what, that is in the round like ocean spray, splitting would be a differant matter

[mullet]

Here we go, seasoning/curing or drying. Love this subject. Break out the pop corn. :)I have put it in the pond or creek to keep if from checking until I could get to it and care for it properly, but that was only for a short time, maybe a few days. Eddie [Mullet] will chime in on this one soon I bet.
   Pappy

think I'll sit back with a bowl of popcorn myself, Pappy. See how long it takes till the discussion starts debating the merits of soaking wood in Buffalo urine and salt water.

[Badger]

  Dead wood is soaking in water throughout the life of the tree. All wood does is carry water. I don't see how soaking it for an extra month or year is going to make any difference. It is effective at keeping the wood from checking thats about all I can see to it.

[DC]

It may stop checking while it's in the water but is it just delaying the inevitable? If I cut a piece of plum and put it in a creek and after a month I cut another piece of plum, pull the one out of the creek and dry them together, will there be any difference?

[Badger]

It may stop checking while it's in the water but is it just delaying the inevitable? If I cut a piece of plum and put it in a creek and after a month I cut another piece of plum, pull the one out of the creek and dry them together, will there be any difference?

   I would imagine they will be the same. I wrap plum in sirhan wrap and cut just a few slits in it. I add slits every couple of weeks for several months.

[vinemaplebows]

It may stop checking while it's in the water but is it just delaying the inevitable? If I cut a piece of plum and put it in a creek and after a month I cut another piece of plum, pull the one out of the creek and dry them together, will there be any difference?

Yes it would depending on species of the wood....Here is a article of the functions of sap/heartwood in trees.http://northernwoodlands.org/articles/article/what_is_the_difference_between_sapwood_and_heartwood    I would think soaking wood to start at a even MC could aid in the drying process, the inner and outer pieces of wood shrinking faster than one another, would result in cracks I would think.

[loefflerchuck]

I like your way of explaining this JW. One thing I saw a while back was divers recovering old logs from shipwrecks in lake superior. The wood was in high demand from violin makers and others who needed the best wood money can buy. I know part of this is it is old growth trees, but there was also a reason this wood was so desirable due to water curing.

[JW_Halverson]

Begs the question....does violin wood make good bow wood?

Or are we comparing apples and orange VW microbuses?

[Pappy]

Dang Eddie you disappointed me.
   Pappy

[JoJoDapyro]

I will go out on a limb and say that I believe that bow wood and instrument wood would be looking for the same qualities. Vibration is key to the process in making either. Thanks for all of the information so far. Perhaps a test is in order.

[E. Jensen]

The reason salvaged logs from lakes and rivers are so valuable is because over time minerals are deposited into the wood, often times staining it in a unique way.  My guess is water curing is simply to equalize the MC content.  I know they steam wooden bowls before drying them to achieve the same thing. 

[loefflerchuck]

Thanks Jensen. JW, With apples or oranges we still want to store em in a place where they keep the longest. Wood is wood

[joachimM]

This i s my opinion on the matter:

Water curing is a method to get rid of a lot of bug food in wood and to allow better drying when you do get it out of the water.
Basically, the soluble starch and sugars (and a lot of other water-soluble organic molecules) in the wood matrix slowly dissolve into the water (like tea from a tea bag and a cube of sugar in coffee), part of it is also decayed by bacterial activity. Also, the cell wall lining becomes degraded, as a result of which cells become more permeable to water. Hence, they hydrate and dehydrate faster (you get to equilibrium moisture more rapidly). This means that the wood doesn't check as badly when it is finally air-dried, as the inside of the wood will dry nearly as fast as the outside. Checking results from very uneven drying of wood from the outside to the inside.

In addition, I guess that water-cured logs are more resistant to fungal attack or insect boring, as there's just less food for the critters left to munch on (because it's dissolved into the water), and they won't colonize the logs as easily.

If you leave the wood too long under water, the cellulose itself will slowly decay spontaneously as well (requiring many years, not talking about weeks to months)

See http://nautarch.tamu.edu/CRL/conservationmanual/File6.htm and http://maliposamusic.com/Stradwoodcuring.htm for more info.

[DC]

Begs the question....does violin wood make good bow wood?

Or are we comparing apples and orange VW microbuses?

I think they are completely different. Violins don't have to bend much.