A debate

[Zuma]

If someone wanted me to go kill for them again and not drink a beer and I was 19 like I was then.
I would tell them to kiss my rosy red caboose.
Today it's all voluntary, so it's a choice for our troops. God bless them.
Zuma

[PEARL DRUMS]

The big difference is the military has a way of growing young men up fast. An 18 year old after boot camp wont compare to an 18 year old on the streets. Night and day difference there.

[Eric Krewson]

If you non vet guys went through the training I did in 1967 you would understand. Discipline is drummed into your head from day one when I was in, if you acted up the Drill instructor might (would)  kick your a$$ big time. This type of controlled environment didn't allow for the dumb stuff people do outside the military when they are drinking.

If you were a real bone head that affected the company's mission, there was a good chance you would get a blanket party held in your honor by your peers. For those who don't know what a blanket party is; The guilty party is approached from the rear, a GI wool blanket is thrown over his head, he is caught by surprise and is pummeled by all the folk that decided he needed an attitude adjustment.

We had one guy in basic who's personal hygiene was abysmal, he didn't even use toilet paper. We got sick of his nasty ways and put a bar of yellow lye soap and a stiff scrub brush we used for the concrete floor on his bunk. We told him if he didn't  clean up his act we were going to hold him down in the shower and scrub every inch of his nasty body with the lye soap and the scrub brush.

He instantly became very focused on his cleanliness.

Like I said guys, the military is a different world and can't be compared to the world non military people live in .

[kid bow]

I enjoy the very intellectual responses i get from all of you. You all bring up extremely great points and different veiws . Please chime in with more.

[Peacebow_Coos]

Yep, I think if a person honors their countrymen by serving in the military said persons should be able to imbibe whatever they choose on their down time.  Other countries with lower drinking ages seem to have less alcohol related problems with youth I hear.  When I was 18 nothing really stopped me from drinking, just buying it.

[sleek]

I really think the younger you start doing something, the more responsible you are with it ( within reason ).
18 is an adult and I believe holding back on the freedom to drink only causes problems by making the young adults break the law just to drink if they were so inclined.  Of course the counter to that is they should break the law and a willingness to do so shows a lack of responsibility. 
I drank at 17. I wasnt supposed to but I did. Dad didnt know and if he did, he didnt say anything. I just drank a beer on the occasion at an adult friends house of mine. I wouldnt drive for hoirs after and never got wasted. I think if we allowed younger folks to drink it would be more normal and less of a party thing. None of that, whooo hoo breakin the law etc... cause it wouldnt be illegal.  Kinda a rant but oh well, supper is ready and im gonna drink red wine with chicked tonight. Wrong color but its what I got. Yall are making me thirsty.

[Josh B]

Marks the military does live under a completely different set of laws than civilians do.  It's called the uniform code of military justice and it is far stricter than civilian law.  If you find that unacceptable, perhaps you could volunteer to live under the same laws as the military in the spirit of equality.  Recruiters aren't hard to find.  I have always found it ironic that people handed freedom at no cost use that freedom to protest, denigrate, and cast aspersions on the very people that defend those freedoms.   If you don't think those men and women are mature enough to drink, perhaps you should walk a mile in their boots.  I believe that you would develop a completely different attitude in short order.   Josh

[kid bow]

I was just about to say that about UCMJ.

[sleek]

Or for that matter be a politician making laws regarding military unless you were in.

[Marks]

Marks the military does live under a completely different set of laws than civilians do.  It's called the uniform code of military justice and it is far stricter than civilian law.  If you find that unacceptable, perhaps you could volunteer to live under the same laws as the military in the spirit of equality.  Recruiters aren't hard to find.  I have always found it ironic that people handed freedom at no cost use that freedom to protest, denigrate, and cast aspersions on the very people that defend those freedoms.   If you don't think those men and women are mature enough to drink, perhaps you should walk a mile in their boots.  I believe that you would develop a completely different attitude in short order.   Josh

First off, I could care less if they drink. If the Govt wants to make the drinking age 18 then go for it. I didn't say they aren't mature enough. I just said I'm fine with the current drinking age. I don't drink so I don't care but if its 18 then it should be 18 across the board.

Second, I think you have the wrong idea about my attitude. I got out my thesaurus and I'm a little confused. I didn't do any of the things your words mean. I'm not protesting, denigrating, or casting anything on the people that defend my freedoms. Yes, the military has a more strict code. I get that. That is different. You signed that contract. We are talking about everyday laws not applying to military. That's apples and oranges.  Trust me, I'm not a military hater. I fly my flag proud. I'm patriotic. I cry when nobodies looking during the soldier coming home videos on youtube. I believe in the Constitution.

[Josh B]

I was not clear.  The charges of protest and denigrating our military members was not aimed specifically at you Mark, but meant more of an indictment toward the those that would have you believe that our service members are less than they are.  I do believe that your questions regarding their maturity level and the assumption that they are no better than anyone else is indeed an aspersion upon their character.  I caught the part about your patriotism and I'm not questioning that.  I think what you're missing is that years alone are no measure of maturity.  Life experiences bring on maturity and that is the key to this debate.  I can't make you understand the life altering experience the military brings about with mere words.  That has to be experienced.  What I and others are trying to point out is that an 18 yr old service member cannot be compared as an equal with the average same age civilian.  The sum total of each category of 18 yr olds experience  is the Apple and orange comparison you referred to.  I also disagree with your assertion that these 18 yr old soldiers, marines sailors, coasties and airmen are not better than anyone else.  Without them we may well find ourselves under sharia law and then a drinking age would be irrelevant.  No one could drink.  Josh

[Zuma]

In the old days the only guys willing to go kill for others were supplied with spirits.
Napoleon Bonaparte told the men he requited to fight in Egypt that the Nile flowed with wine.
I think whiskey was invented for WW1 soldiers. Less space taken up.
Civilians in harms way usually get to go home after shift. GI's at war don't. No comparison.
Even cops don't have to kill indiscriminately. If your in---I'm buying!
Zuma 

[Marks]

According to the Constitution and the law, which is what this conversation ultimately comes down to, we are equal. There are a lot of things that cause some to grow up and mature faster than others but years of age is the only quantifiable measure we have.

And of course, thank you for your service.

[sleek]

Good point marks. We cant have some being " more equal than others " can we? So I agree it should stay the same across the board.

[Josh B]

According to the Constitution and the law, which is what this conversation ultimately comes down to, we are equal. There are a lot of things that cause some to grow up and mature faster than others but years of age is the only quantifiable measure we have.

And of course, thank you for your service.

You are incorrect sir.  The Declaration of Independence states that all men are created equal, not the constitution.  The constitution was written so that men born equal were guaranteed the freedom to make of their life what they will, for better or worse.  It comes down to givers and takers.  Givers give more to their community than they take from it.  Takers are the kind of people refuse to contribute to their community, but choose instead to sponge off the efforts of others while criticizing those that are givers and insisting they are equal.  We are born equal, I firmly believe that.   But we aren't guaranteed equality throughout life.  One look around should confirm that some people have made themselves into better people and some have not.  Josh