Author Topic: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please *(UPDATE)  (Read 12269 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline paco664

  • Member
  • Posts: 307
  • ok,ok.. i might have done it...
redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please *(UPDATE)
« on: March 28, 2015, 01:05:55 am »
66.5" ntn board bow made from red oak with a 1/8th" hickory backing... very very simple design basically straight the whole way and tapering in the final 6"on each limb from 1 3/8th" to 5/8th"...

Gonna have a lot of finishing to do but oh well. .all in good fun right?

Anyway on short string and 47#s hanging from the string @21"... aiming to make 50-55 @ 29"

The tiller looks to me like i wanted it to but you guys opinions are much much more valuable than mine. ..

Anyway
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 06:42:28 pm by paco664 »
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"~Col.H.Sanders

Offline Weylin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,296
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2015, 01:12:26 am »
Could we trouble you for a pic that doesn't have the ellipse added? That would make it easier for some of us to see it well.

Offline paco664

  • Member
  • Posts: 307
  • ok,ok.. i might have done it...
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2015, 01:14:50 am »
Same photo no elipse. ..
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"~Col.H.Sanders

Offline randman

  • Member
  • Posts: 647
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2015, 01:16:51 am »
Need to get the outer limbs bending.....It's only bending in the fades... The whole outer half of both limbs are straight "as a board"...
What's the back profile and the unbraced shape look like? I'll bet you've already got set at those two spots that are the only thing bending...
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

Offline E. Jensen

  • Member
  • Posts: 481
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2015, 01:18:16 am »
Stiff tips

Offline paco664

  • Member
  • Posts: 307
  • ok,ok.. i might have done it...
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2015, 01:20:12 am »
I see now what you mean. .. there is about 1.5-2" of set...

I'll work on the outers and no more on the inners...

The profile is straight sides all the way except for the final 6"before the tips. .

Thanks for the quick reply
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"~Col.H.Sanders

Offline paco664

  • Member
  • Posts: 307
  • ok,ok.. i might have done it...
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2015, 01:57:54 am »
5" brace

After removing an equal amount from the outers of each limb she now goes to 22" with 47# on the string and i measured the set after 10 mins of being unstrung 1.25"...
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"~Col.H.Sanders

Offline bubbles

  • Member
  • Posts: 932
  • PM110769
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2015, 02:11:11 am »
I would say it still needs more bend in the outers.  If youre going to overlay ellipses, the belly should follow the edge of the ellipse for most of the bending portion of limb.  Your limbs followed the curve of that ellipse for about a foot, then the limbs were completely  obscured by the ellipse, making it impossible  to tell the tiller.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 02:23:08 am by bubbles »

Offline Parnell

  • Member
  • Posts: 5,556
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2015, 04:20:23 am »
Once you see how its done in person, you'll be off...and running.
1’—>1’

Offline Del the cat

  • Member
  • Posts: 8,300
    • Derek Hutchison Native Wood Self Bows
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2015, 05:00:35 am »
Try to find somewhere to take the pics that has a more even back ground. It will help you to see what's going on.
You have be your own harshest critic to get really good tiller.
Holding a plate or CD or something round in front of the bow (or a picture of it) is a great check. Mind I like a circular tiller, but an eliptical tiller is only slightly elliptical and some bows with stiff grips are more like a circular tiller on each limb with a few inches between the centre of of the two circles.
Using 'Paint' to draw curves needs to be done with caution else it can give a false impression.
If you talk to the real top guys about their bows (or any craftsman about their work) you'll find they will point out faults that most people can't even see or even if they could see it, they wouldn't know it's a fault.
I've shown how I see the tiller. The poor background has the edge of the ceiling obsuring the belly of the bow near the grip so it's V hard to see what's really happening.
You have to draw the ellipse so it is just touching the bow consistently where it can. The ellipse isn't there to average out and disguise the errors... it's there to help you see them.(See the annotated version of your ellipse)
My take on it shows issues that the other have pointed out.
Sorry if all this sounds harsh, and as you say, it that's the tiller shape you want with stiff Mollegabet style levers, that's cool.
Del
« Last Edit: March 28, 2015, 05:23:11 am by Del the cat »
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2015, 07:37:35 am »
 When you see hinges you can't just pull the bow back until they go away.

blackhawk

  • Guest
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2015, 07:59:40 am »
That stick ain't ready to brace yet..let alone pulling it that far...that's why its taking so much set already...a lam bow starting straight and pulling that far shouldn't have taken much if any set yet...I'll be more straight up...that bows hinged in the fades..more so left limb than right limb. And hinges at fades pulled to far really accentuates set and string follow robbing cast. Never pull any further than an error in your tiller regardless of how much weight its reading. Just because you want a 50 pound bow doesn't mean you pull it to 50 pounds. If a hinge starts showing at 20 you stop there and fix it and to no further untilk its gone. Since you have a board use a straight edge or tiller gizmo to show you where its bending to much and needs scraped if you can't see it with your own eyes.

Next issue is your front profile. That needs fixed too. Find mid limb and start your taper there. With a front profile like that with all the bend in the fades its gonna rattle all your teethers out. I'd reduce that first and see what the bend looks like,and then go from there reducing from the belly in the outer half of your limbs.

Offline paco664

  • Member
  • Posts: 307
  • ok,ok.. i might have done it...
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2015, 08:28:35 am »
Try to find somewhere to take the pics that has a more even back ground. It will help you to see what's going on.
You have be your own harshest critic to get really good tiller.
Holding a plate or CD or something round in front of the bow (or a picture of it) is a great check. Mind I like a circular tiller, but an eliptical tiller is only slightly elliptical and some bows with stiff grips are more like a circular tiller on each limb with a few inches between the centre of of the two circles.
Using 'Paint' to draw curves needs to be done with caution else it can give a false impression.
If you talk to the real top guys about their bows (or any craftsman about their work) you'll find they will point out faults that most people can't even see or even if they could see it, they wouldn't know it's a fault.
I've shown how I see the tiller. The poor background has the edge of the ceiling obsuring the belly of the bow near the grip so it's V hard to see what's really happening.
You have to draw the ellipse so it is just touching the bow consistently where it can. The ellipse isn't there to average out and disguise the errors... it's there to help you see them.(See the annotated version of your ellipse)
My take on it shows issues that the other have pointed out.
Sorry if all this sounds harsh, and as you say, it that's the tiller shape you want with stiff Mollegabet style levers, that's cool.
Del
thank you Del

duly noted on background but that's the only place in my house i can put that tree and the other direction would be even worse of a background..  :-\

and i don't mind the harsh criticism... i asked for true opinions not people to tell me it looks great when it isn't...

this is a bend thru the handle and it is bending there...

Patm...   i didn't see any hinges

Blackhawk... will do on the taper... thanks for the honesty...
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"~Col.H.Sanders

Offline Hrothgar

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,475
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2015, 09:15:38 am »
Follow Del's diagrams and I think that will adjust a lot, especially the outer limbs.
" To be, or not to be"...decisions, decisions, decisions.

Offline bubbles

  • Member
  • Posts: 932
  • PM110769
Re: redoak/hickory bendy handle tiller check please
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2015, 12:25:40 pm »
Great things for a tillering background: bedsheet of a contrasting colour strung up, in the background. Doors, curtains are great as well.