dap plasic wood or other epoxy for handle splices ? dollar store epoxy ?

[vinemaplebows]

As a cautionary note, I repaired a socket type take down that broke while using a stringer. The stringer socket covered the nock and I couldn't tell that the string loop was only half way on! So I made a V type splice and used 5 minute epoxy on the upper limb handle. The splice look good and snug so I shot it over the next couple of weeks, maybe two hundred shots. I went out to our range one morning and at the first target on the bag range
I drew the bow back to my usual 31"and BAM!!!!! The splice gave way with no noise just smacked me in the head and abdomen and put me to my knees bleeding profusely from my scalp!!! I was really dazed and felt like the bottom limb had penetrated my abdomen. This bow was a laminated wood and glass long bow, 62 lbs at 28"
so at 31" I was likely pulling 71 lbs. I have broken many wood bows since but none of them were near as bad as this one. It was a humbling lesson!!! Could have been worse and taken my eye out.  The epoxy completely failed
after two hundred shots. A better type of glue and even a strong wrap would have been worth what ever price!!! cheers fiddler49

The five minute epoxy, cures way too fast, and is brittle because the the excelled curing time. With epoxy quick is not always good. Devcon, and other similar at the store brands with the 30 minute set is not "cured" for 24hrs, BIG difference. I think Tim Baker in the first bowyers bible on glue comparisons was using a few different epoxies in his test...Rescorcnol gave @25lbs, five-minute epoxy @28lbs, two-ton @44lbs. These tests were using maple samples of the same size, seemed to be a rather fair test just about anyone can duplicate.

Now, My favorite is Devcon, never had a problem, but that's my luck...I guess You must stir the crap out of the stuff. I would not use it in ANY bending areas as think this epoxy is made for rigid applications.

[bow-noob]

I think i will set the dollar store bow aside as i have barely started to tiller it.
  I think i will put a couple of dowels threw the handle splice and take off the bamboo backing and start over on that one.  Oh well, kind of figured that stuff was a bad idea.. ordered some of the DAP as i couldn't get it locally.

[Eric Krewson]

Dowels do not strengthen a handle splice, been there done that.

Adding a piece of wood to the back of the handle does strengthen the splice by increasing the glued surface area. Of course a quality glue is needed to get he best results.

[vinemaplebows]

No dowels here either, never needed it. What I do different than most (from what I have seen including Erics picture above) Is I first glue both handles on the billets,(otherwise each billet gets it's own piece) then splice through both the billets, and the handle....this gives a lot of added strength. Some might think that's ugly...but you already have the back splice to hide, so what's the big deal for the added security.

[bow-noob]

I guess after my research all i could find tells me the 5 min epoxy is pretty strong, stronger than wood glue anyways, i understand on the bending part it might be to brittle, but it seems like will hold up fine if not better than tb3 on the handle splice. Has anyone actually tried 5 min epoxy for the backing without failure ?

[PEARL DRUMS]

Uni Bond 800

You need work time to properly apply a back and get it all clamped down. 5 minutes isn't near enough.

[crooketarrow]

  I don't put any handles on. If I can't carve it I don't use it.

 But I do know,this is'nt this isn't the place to save penny's.

[vinemaplebows]

  I don't put any handles on. If I can't carve it I don't use it.

 But I do know,this is'nt this isn't the place to save penny's.

Then you limit yourself on perfectly good bow wood...to each his own.

[steve b.]

Del---Use a good brand
Eric---No epoxy.  Unibond 800
Wood Spring---Dap Weldwood or Resorcinol
Pearl Drums---Uni bond 800
Bubby--- Unibond 800 or Smooth ON
VMB--Devcon 30
Pat B---Weldwood Plastic Resin
JoJo-- You get what you pay for
Prairie Bowyer-- TB3, Dap, Gorilla Epoxy
Fiddler--- 5 minute epoxy failed
VMB----5 minute epoxy brittle
Pearl Drums----Uni Bond 800.   5 minute not good.
Crooketarrow---   Don't save pennys here.

[rudamchu]

I never understand why some people don't research and simply stay within the limits of their existing knowledge base. You're never too old or too wise to learn something new. A bunch of replies on here state that Unibond is the way to go when someone is asking about Dap. People .... Dap is the same basic stuff as Unibond ... it is a urea based formaldehyde resin that has all the same properties. The fact that it is powder based makes for a longer, more viable shelf life, plus it's easier to work with as it's also water based, not to mention that it's cheaper than Unibond. I've had a bunch of Unibond go bad on me because I didn't use it fast enough. It is stronger than the wood itself. I also see some saying they don't like water based glues ... some of the strongest glues are water based ... TBIII is water based, yet waterproof once cured. If you do your own research and experimentation, you may find less expensive, better, and equally as strong, if not stronger alternatives to your more traditional, tried and true methods. And this applies to just about anything else in life. In other words, think outside the box. End rant.

[PatM]

Welcome!   This thread has been weighing on me heavily for the last three years and I feel a weight has been lifted.

[Marc St Louis]

I never understand why some people don't research and simply stay within the limits of their existing knowledge base. You're never too old or too wise to learn something new. A bunch of replies on here state that Unibond is the way to go when someone is asking about Dap. People .... Dap is the same basic stuff as Unibond ... it is a urea based formaldehyde resin that has all the same properties. The fact that it is powder based makes for a longer, more viable shelf life, plus it's easier to work with as it's also water based, not to mention that it's cheaper than Unibond. I've had a bunch of Unibond go bad on me because I didn't use it fast enough. It is stronger than the wood itself. I also see some saying they don't like water based glues ... some of the strongest glues are water based ... TBIII is water based, yet waterproof once cured. If you do your own research and experimentation, you may find less expensive, better, and equally as strong, if not stronger alternatives to your more traditional, tried and true methods. And this applies to just about anything else in life. In other words, think outside the box. End rant.

The problem with Dap is the temperature requirements.  Not so bad if the temp never goes below 70F where you live but up North here it is a problem

[willie]

The problem with Dap is the temperature requirements.  Not so bad if the temp never goes below 70F where you live but up North here it is a problem

Mark, are you talking about the temp requirements while it is curing?
what about once it is dry?

[gfugal]

I never understand why some people don't research and simply stay within the limits of their existing knowledge base. You're never too old or too wise to learn something new. A bunch of replies on here state that Unibond is the way to go when someone is asking about Dap. People .... Dap is the same basic stuff as Unibond ... it is a urea based formaldehyde resin that has all the same properties. The fact that it is powder based makes for a longer, more viable shelf life, plus it's easier to work with as it's also water based, not to mention that it's cheaper than Unibond. I've had a bunch of Unibond go bad on me because I didn't use it fast enough. It is stronger than the wood itself. I also see some saying they don't like water based glues ... some of the strongest glues are water based ... TBIII is water based, yet waterproof once cured. If you do your own research and experimentation, you may find less expensive, better, and equally as strong, if not stronger alternatives to your more traditional, tried and true methods. And this applies to just about anything else in life. In other words, think outside the box. End rant.

+1, Although I've never used dap. I get the frustration when I ask about a certain glue or bring it up, and just get told to use smooth on or unibond.

[Springbuck]

I use Titebond II for all kinds of things, including laminations and backings, overlays, etc...

But, for actual splices, like fingered "W" or "Z" splices, or scarfs, or butting lams together on a handle block, etc... Unibond 800, or the very best 2 ton (or stronger) epoxy I can find.    Used to be Urac 185.