Author Topic: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library  (Read 52716 times)

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Offline crooketarrow

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #60 on: March 07, 2015, 08:43:19 pm »
   RICH you da man.
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Offline half eye

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #61 on: March 07, 2015, 09:08:56 pm »
Marc, The odawa, and ojibwe refer to themselves as Anishinaabe, or Anishinaabek (depends on tense) and the Potawatomi call them selves the Neshnabek which is a dialect diferentiation only since all three consider themselves originally all the same and Anishinaabe means original people or First people depending on who you ask. Seperating them is not their history.
       They consider the time when they seperated into 3 groups as the time of their "fourth stop"  of their westward migration, when the ones who went north were Odawa, those at the Straights were Ojibwe or chippewa, and the ones that went south were Potawatami but all were still called Anishinaabe or dialect deivations of that.
      The Odawa elders I showed the bow to say it is a fine old odawa bow, so that is what I call it. In any case it is definately Eastern Woodland. This is not our first dissagreement on the particular bow. But in either case both sides are represented so the future readers can be aware of the possibilities.
      I believe that you are aware that the French, British, and Americans all had different names for them, and did not diferentiate too carefully so I go by their history and tradition, as I have said before.


Pat: I did not say the Shoshoni were algonquin I said they were of the Algonquian language group. This is a common grouping distinction used in a lot of the writings I am aware of. The plains Ojibawe and Cree spoke a dialect called Oji-Cree, still Algonquian language but a different dialect. The siouian Language group was seperate as was the Athapaskin language groups such as Apache. But as I told Marc, both sides are now fairly represented so let the readers decide for themselves,eh?
rich

Offline PatM

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #62 on: March 07, 2015, 09:38:31 pm »
I know  what you meant but it's incorrect.  The Shoshone  speak a Uto-Aztecan language.
 The various splinter tribes that can be considered a larger group was a constantly ongoing thing. The Anishinabe just happened to be noted in that transitional stage.
 Others diverged and  started hating each other like the Huron and other Iroquois.

Offline half eye

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #63 on: March 07, 2015, 10:20:36 pm »
uto-aztecan is correct on all the pre contact maps, however I believe there was a change in distribution after contact when some tribes were forced into the plains. I believe that explains the little pocket of Algonquian language (all beit western Oji-Cree) from the Arapaho, Gros Ventre,Blackfoot and Cheyenne, a small island of algonquian language groups after contact, surrounded by uto aztecan, siouxian, caddoan etc.  The tradition says Shoshone, in any event there was a sizeable migration of Odawa.

If you wish to call it incorrect thats fine, doesn't change the bows or my reasoning for keeping the picture that I posted. I kept it for the stated reason, if thats incorrect does not matter the bow is the same and has been attributed correctly by Tipi Stuff, in an earlier post and that is what matters to me. All the pro-con debate is there for the readers to see.
rich

Offline PatM

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #64 on: March 07, 2015, 10:34:08 pm »
After horses showed up plenty of tribes and their associated language groups ended up well outside where they originated from.  Being forced onto the plains was probably a blessing for most.
 Still not sure why you are saying they were Algonquin apart from associating with tribes which were.

Offline Hrothgar

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #65 on: March 07, 2015, 10:44:19 pm »
Rich, thanks for this post, a lot of great photos and ideas.

I'm hoping to get down and visit the native American display at the University of Missouri at Columbia some time soon. Dr. Grayson ( and his heirs) donated much to the school. Supposedly there are still some artifacts in the basement which haven't been catalogued and displayed.

There are no preserved bows or arrows that I know of in Missouri other than the Osage who were mostly south of the Missouri river.
" To be, or not to be"...decisions, decisions, decisions.

Offline Marc St Louis

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #66 on: March 08, 2015, 09:04:33 am »
Rich
I was just stating the fact that the bow is listed as an Anishinaabe bow at the museum, makes no mention of Odawa or Algonquin or anything else for that matter.  Pity since it is a lovely bow.

It is an impressive collection
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owlbait

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #67 on: March 08, 2015, 10:24:09 am »
Rich, let me add my name to the list of thanks for the time and effort it takes to post these amazing photos. My wife has been delving more into her genealogy and has traced it to include some Cree history in her lines. It was nice to see the Cree photos and share those with her.
Mike

Offline ---GUTSHOT--->

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #68 on: March 08, 2015, 11:55:46 am »
I loved all the pics thanks for all the effort to post these. But those pics of the indians holding there bows were cool

Offline half eye

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #69 on: March 08, 2015, 12:35:47 pm »
I have several more bow pics and some very interesting sites to augment this all but will need some help. I can email links but can post them here....I also can open some of my bow pics but they wont allow me to do so where I can resize them they are between 300 and 500 kb so are just a little too big.....if anyone can help I could email these to them and maybe they could add to the post as an extra resource.....one of the sites is a Native American run site of all NA photographs thats where some pics of men holding or stinging bows comes from.....anyway if someone wants to voluter that would be great.
rich

Here are a few examples attached

Offline loefflerchuck

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #70 on: March 08, 2015, 01:01:53 pm »
Yes first of all Thanks. I've been pulling the pictures I don't have to my files on iphoto.

The first bow in the second post on page one is Miwok. The Shoshone set as mentioned on page 2 and a Apache and Shoshone set on page 3.

Keep this post going

Offline half eye

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #71 on: March 08, 2015, 01:38:25 pm »
Here is an example of why I need the posting help....I wanted to put up the link to the Hannahville Virtual Museum (so you would not have to google it yourself) if go to that site you will see a board of various items....in row 2 the first and second items are bows that the Neshnabek (potawatomii) say are theirs.......the first bow is a typical Eastern Woodland type single curve but does the whole belly incise carved.....the second bow is actually 2 bows the first is a single curve with a pronounced ridge (or keel) running down the belly of the bow and is worth noting....however the second bow (last 2 pics) is the one that appears in one of Hamms' books a flat single curved scalloped bow............these bow pictures are very high resolution and have a bar to enlarge them to a point of seeing wood grain and pores, and the ability to scan up and down the bow as well to examine all the details closely.    The reason for bringing this up is so that you can see that bow in detail but you can also see that the museum piece is strung upside down because you can look at the knocks.....the Neshnabek are the same as the Odawa or Ojibwe in that they shoot off of the scalloped side, and the diamond fineal is the top regardless of the string orientation. These bows are housed at the National Museum of the American Indian and were transferred from Jackson Hole WY, in an exchange. I contacted the museum about this bow and was politely advised that it arrived as photographed and they are not going chance any damage by changing the string and this is a matter of practice on any artifact (no damage of any kind) and so that is how it will remain....as photographed.

Sorry for the long winded deal but that is why I wanted to post the link so you could have a chance to look at some bows so close it's scary.
rich

Offline PatM

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Offline half eye

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #73 on: March 08, 2015, 01:50:38 pm »
Thanks Pat, that is just the first bow the other two are not there, I'll see if I can get the Item number for you.

Offline half eye

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Re: Eastern Woodland bow pictures library
« Reply #74 on: March 08, 2015, 01:54:41 pm »
Pat M, the second catalog number is 241980.00    it is a single number but applies to two seperate bows....transferred in 1968
rich