New bow from a newbie

[iangriffin]

Hi All
Let me tell you my logic behind this Bow. I am very traditional and refuse to use synthetic materials or build a bow with an arrow rest. I wish to build a bow to compete in Field Archery. FNAS Barebow class. I don't want to build an ELB or an AFB because all they are in a separate class to recurves. I want to compete against the recurves. But Olympic recurves have advantages. Like arrow rests, light weight arrows, sights, stabilisers and are fast. I want a bow that is fairly short (I'm only 5ft 6ins). It should be as fast or faster than Olympics. As I can pull 110lbs for 80-100 arrows in 2 hours (Kassai bear110 Magyar). Distances 30, 50, and 70mtrs. So I can try and offset their speed with a heavier draw weight at 28ins.  My bamboo arrows will also help with the speed and accuracy. I don't much care for a rounded handle. My bow handle is flat at the back (with rounded corners). This helps to give a very steady bow hand with the extra weight I can comfortably  pull. Reflex/deflex bows are not allowed. I like to use a thumbring but they are'nt allowed either. An asymmetric bow gives speed and no/very little hand shock, according to Grozer. How about we put heads together and come up with a bow. I have woods ash maple and white oak, each plank is 60x2x4ins. I have a 12inch table saw, a broad drum sander, tillering jig and enough hand saws, files/rasps, rasps and planes to sink a battle ship ( perhaps a small one). The speed limit for bows/arrows 300 ft/sec. So I doubt that will bother us. I am open to any sort of deal. If we use a committee, I don't have to be on it. So come on you've told what not to do. NOW tell me what right to do?

[iangriffin]

Hi danny F - It would be great to meet up soon. I live in Farnworth. Please PM some details so we can meet. I buy crickets for my Tarantulas from Plodder pets. Mike the owner told me about a bowyer who gets snakeskin backings from him. Could this be you?

[adb]

There are an almost infinite number of bows and build-alongs right here on this forum. Enough to hold you captive for months. Do some searching and you'll find good examples of whatever type of bow you want to make. Do your own research and reading as well. That's how most of us got started! I've already given you a suggestion on how to improve your fades and grip transitions.

[bubby]

The first "RIGHT" thing to do is listen you can have the handle any shape you want, but the fades need a SMOOTH transition into the limbs thats one, if you have a drum sander then everything should be a good tight fit before glueup and i would use innertubes for clamps, the way you did the linb attachment is god awful and should join at the center qof the bow with a splice , a little research will yield most of your answers

[rossfactor]

Hi Ian, 

I admire your enthusiasm. I think lots of us have had big ambitions at various points in our personal bow making histories. I also second Gun Docs words that you shouldn't take the responses here personally –many of us have experience with bows exploding, and it can be very dangerous. Hopefully folks are thinking about your safety first and then adding some good bow making advice as well.

What you’re asking for … ‘a short bow, made using no synthetic materials, fast or faster than Olympic recurves…,’ is a tall order.  It’s even taller when you include some other criteria many of work towards like durability. There are a number of designs that could meet those criteria, but the key is not only design, but execution.. meaning the process of shaping and tillering the bow properly. And that takes a lot of practice, and trial and error, and often frustration.  I would advise you to search through the build alongs on this site (see ‘How Too’s and Build Alongs’), and plan to spend a lot of time on making your own prototypes. But keep your original goal and check in as you go to see if you are getting closer.

Good luck,

Gabe

[danny f]

hiya mate yes thats me, i live a few minutes from the petshop. if you go through my posts you will see the snakskin backed bow, i havent been making any recently as i have been busy with other stuff, but will sort something out one day. its a small world eh😄

[PatM]

Hi All
Let me tell you my logic behind this Bow. I am very traditional and refuse to use synthetic materials or build a bow with an arrow rest. I wish to build a bow to compete in Field Archery. FNAS Barebow class. I don't want to build an ELB or an AFB because all they are in a separate class to recurves. I want to compete against the recurves. But Olympic recurves have advantages. Like arrow rests, light weight arrows, sights, stabilisers and are fast. I want a bow that is fairly short (I'm only 5ft 6ins). It should be as fast or faster than Olympics. As I can pull 110lbs for 80-100 arrows in 2 hours (Kassai bear110 Magyar). Distances 30, 50, and 70mtrs. So I can try and offset their speed with a heavier draw weight at 28ins.  My bamboo arrows will also help with the speed and accuracy. I don't much care for a rounded handle. My bow handle is flat at the back (with rounded corners). This helps to give a very steady bow hand with the extra weight I can comfortably  pull. Reflex/deflex bows are not allowed. I like to use a thumbring but they are'nt allowed either. An asymmetric bow gives speed and no/very little hand shock, according to Grozer. How about we put heads together and come up with a bow. I have woods ash maple and white oak, each plank is 60x2x4ins. I have a 12inch table saw, a broad drum sander, tillering jig and enough hand saws, files/rasps, rasps and planes to sink a battle ship ( perhaps a small one). The speed limit for bows/arrows 300 ft/sec. So I doubt that will bother us. I am open to any sort of deal. If we use a committee, I don't have to be on it. So come on you've told what not to do. NOW tell me what right to do?

None of these "needs" have anything to do with what you've produced though.
 

[adb]

Hi All
Let me tell you my logic behind this Bow. I am very traditional and refuse to use synthetic materials or build a bow with an arrow rest. I wish to build a bow to compete in Field Archery. FNAS Barebow class. I don't want to build an ELB or an AFB because all they are in a separate class to recurves. I want to compete against the recurves. But Olympic recurves have advantages. Like arrow rests, light weight arrows, sights, stabilisers and are fast. I want a bow that is fairly short (I'm only 5ft 6ins). It should be as fast or faster than Olympics. As I can pull 110lbs for 80-100 arrows in 2 hours (Kassai bear110 Magyar). Distances 30, 50, and 70mtrs. So I can try and offset their speed with a heavier draw weight at 28ins.  My bamboo arrows will also help with the speed and accuracy. I don't much care for a rounded handle. My bow handle is flat at the back (with rounded corners). This helps to give a very steady bow hand with the extra weight I can comfortably  pull. Reflex/deflex bows are not allowed. I like to use a thumbring but they are'nt allowed either. An asymmetric bow gives speed and no/very little hand shock, according to Grozer. How about we put heads together and come up with a bow. I have woods ash maple and white oak, each plank is 60x2x4ins. I have a 12inch table saw, a broad drum sander, tillering jig and enough hand saws, files/rasps, rasps and planes to sink a battle ship ( perhaps a small one). The speed limit for bows/arrows 300 ft/sec. So I doubt that will bother us. I am open to any sort of deal. If we use a committee, I don't have to be on it. So come on you've told what not to do. NOW tell me what right to do?

None of these "needs" have anything to do with what you've produced though.

Exactly.

[willie]

NOW tell me what right to do?

ok , if your back lamination was 3/16 thick and was continuous from nock to nock, the design might not seem so iffy. your bow hand is providing all the bending force right at the center of the bow with the interrupted  laminations. something substantial has to takethe tension of the back to keep the bow together.

[adb]

There yah go... there's a good start. Good advice. The bows back should be one continuous growth ring for a self bow, or a continuous, straight grained, tension strong piece for a laminate. Day one of bow school! With some very basic reading and research, you'll discover this and more basic concepts of good, no non-sense bow making. I encourage you to continue on your road to discovery. Jawge has an excellent website to help new guys. Check it out.

[fiddler49]

You could take this bow and make it a lot safer by adding a 1/4" strip of wood to the belly side of handle and then doing a close wrap of strong cord like nylon mason's line or bow thread around the ends of the handle and limbs the full length of the upper limbs butt splice which looks like about 3 inches. As most have explained your short butt splices are a bad idea but with a reenforced handle and cord wrap it will not break!!!! Or do like I did with an oak take down with 1/2 " x 35 " oak limbs and over lapped a hickory handle 3 inches and use two 1/4 inch carriage bolts and some fender washers and wing nuts to secure the limb to the handle.  cheers fiddler49

[medicinewheel]

You could take this bow and make it a lot safer by adding a 1/4" strip of wood to the belly side of handle and then doing a close wrap of strong cord like nylon mason's line or bow thread around the ends of the handle and limbs the full length of the upper limbs butt splice which looks like about 3 inches. As most have explained your short butt splices are a bad idea but with a reenforced handle and cord wrap it will not break!!!! ...

Wrong: it will break with whatever wrapping you'll apply to it.
Ian don't seem to be ready to accept this inescapable fact so please don't encourage him to continue in any way with this bow just to make him feel better. Even with bolts as you describe: not with that handle construction, not with gaps like that in the glue line, not with that draw weight.

[fiddler49]

Yes frank if he doesn't increase the thickness of the belly side and just wraps it then it will likely break but if he thickens up the handle to even 3/8 " or 1/2 " of hard wood and wraps at least three inches it will not break.
cheers fiddler49

[medicinewheel]

Fiddler, I can't see what the thickness on the belly side has to do with it.
The bow will break towards the backside cause the limbs will lever the short butt joints out of the faulty construction of the whole handle area. You're encouraging Ian to keep trying, and it will still be dangerous nonetheless!

[fiddler49]

Frank, using fast flite or Dynema with a breaking strength of 70 lbs you could put a hundred turns around the joint, close wrapped, which in theory would take 7,000 lbs to break! You don't even need glue, just two 1/4" wood dowels through handle and limb to keep left/right limb orientation or even two small round pebbles into holes between limb and handle to act as keys to prevent limb twist. The belly side of handle needs to be thick enough to handle the leverage of the limb against it. I agree that his is not a very good way to build a bow 
but it could be made safer with a strong wrap!  cheers fiddler49