advice on bamboo backed ipe?

[Dazv]

Hi all.

So I'd like to build a few bamboo backed ipe bows for a couple of friends, only problem is these will be the first ones Ive had a go at. Ive made lots of different styles of selfbows so I'm more used to bent stave's that leave you scratching your head.
I'm planning on using titebond 3 and wrapping the stave's with rubber strips to clamp is there anything I need to watch out for? Also I'm using premade bamboo backings so they should be fine but the ipe I'm having to order in and wont be able to select a particular board but will get the width cut the same and the boo and thickness just about a half inch. should I worry about not seeing the grain layout of the board?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

thanks guys.

[beartail]

I have built two and a friend built one.all of them broke.i took my time and cleaned the the wood with acetone and bamboo to. don't know if wood was bad or the bamboo but they all died. they shot great.my two where English style while my buddys was a flat bow.i guess they shot around 50 to 75 times before thay exploded. id give it a try.they shure are perty. good luck. nether one was under 67" long and my two where 1 1/8" wide.i cant remember what the flat bow was.

[Pat B]

Unless you are getting the ipe from a bow builder or at least someone that understands bow building you will probably going to get nice flooring but not necessarily good bow wood. I like to look at and feel any wood I buy for bows.

[Dazv]

thanks for the quick replies. It will be from a timber supplier so the wood should be in raw form, should I really worry about grain runoffs when making a laminate? 

[Wooden Spring]

The only advice I can give you is to use a non-water based glue. Every time that I have built a bow  with resinous woods with Titebond, it has broken. I have since then gone with resourcinol at the suggestion of a boat building friend of mine and I haven't had a problem since.

[aaron]

I am building one now. It is my first. I used tb3 and rubber bicycle tubes. I cleaned with acetone multiple times, changing the cloth after each wipe. The only issue I had so far had to do with adding reflex while gluing. The boo backing is stiffer at the nodes, so the nodes did not make complete contact with the backing. This caused tiny gaps at two of the nodes. If I were to do it again, I might have put a clamp on each node to force them down. My backing was tapered from 1/8 TO 1/16TH. My ipe was also tapered in width and thickness. This is essential when gluing in reflex.
My ipe is prone to splinter when worked with andraw knife, so I am sticking to the rasp.

[adb]

The only advice I can give you is to use a non-water based glue. Every time that I have built a bow  with resinous woods with Titebond, it has broken. I have since then gone with resourcinol at the suggestion of a boat building friend of mine and I haven't had a problem since.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I use TB3 for all my glue-ups, with no problems, with all wood including ipe. I don't clean ipe with acetone first either. I simply use a freshly sanded, dust free surface. Titebond requires careful surface prep, but it's fine glue. Perhaps if your bows are breaking, it's for another reason.

[Dazv]

The only advice I can give you is to use a non-water based glue. Every time that I have built a bow  with resinous woods with Titebond, it has broken. I have since then gone with resourcinol at the suggestion of a boat building friend of mine and I haven't had a problem since.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I use TB3 for all my glue-ups, with no problems, with all wood including ipe. I don't clean ipe with acetone first either. I simply use a freshly sanded, dust free surface. Titebond requires careful surface prep, but it's fine glue. Perhaps if your bows are breaking, it's for another reason.

thanks for the advice guys. adb when you sand your two surfaces ready to glue what grit are you using? Could anyone give me some advice about grain and growthrings, does it matter if you have run offs when making a laminate?? cheers guys

[Pat B]

Any time I build a backed or lam bow I want the components to be as good as possible. You can get away with less than perfect wood components but there is a better chance of breakage and after all the work that goes into a backed or lam bow I want to keep my chances of success high.

[Wooden Spring]

The only advice I can give you is to use a non-water based glue. Every time that I have built a bow  with resinous woods with Titebond, it has broken. I have since then gone with resourcinol at the suggestion of a boat building friend of mine and I haven't had a problem since.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I use TB3 for all my glue-ups, with no problems, with all wood including ipe. I don't clean ipe with acetone first either. I simply use a freshly sanded, dust free surface. Titebond requires careful surface prep, but it's fine glue. Perhaps if your bows are breaking, it's for another reason.

Nope. It's the glue. I've used TB3 for over 25 years and never had a delaminating problem until I used it for resinous woods in bow making.

[bubby]

As far as what grit to prep for glueup i use 36 grit but 50 is fine

[adb]

I use 80 or 100 grit for glue prep.

[adb]

The only advice I can give you is to use a non-water based glue. Every time that I have built a bow  with resinous woods with Titebond, it has broken. I have since then gone with resourcinol at the suggestion of a boat building friend of mine and I haven't had a problem since.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I use TB3 for all my glue-ups, with no problems, with all wood including ipe. I don't clean ipe with acetone first either. I simply use a freshly sanded, dust free surface. Titebond requires careful surface prep, but it's fine glue. Perhaps if your bows are breaking, it's for another reason.

Nope. It's the glue. I've used TB3 for over 25 years and never had a delaminating problem until I used it for resinous woods in bow making.

I still suggest you have another issue besides the glue.

[Springbuck]

  I've glued ipe with TB III as well and had great results.  I also use a freshly sanded surface, but I use thinned TB III (good and runny, yet opaque, not watery) as a sizing coat on all components first.  I get it good and wet, a solid coating, and let it sit while I prep the rest.  Then right before glue up, I scrape the excess away with a putty knife or wood slat, wait just a moment for the surfaces to get tacky, but not fully dry on each piece, and run a new thick bead of thick glue down the middle.  I spread that, put em together and start clamping.

Dazv: lumber is sawn lengthwise in trees, because the other way doesn't work!  So, generally, boards have grain running "pretty straight", and pretty straight is good enough.   HOWEVER! Think of a board milled out at an angle in a tree.  Think of a straight board milled from a tree with a big crook or bend.  I have made a good handful of bows with "pretty straight" grain on the belly, and they were fine, but I have had several fail because of belly grain, too, each time where it ran back to front at about 15 degrees or a tad more.

  The trouble with ipe (purpleheart, massaranduba, bloodwood) is that the growth rings and grain in general are darn hard to see.  There is only ONE test I know of to demonstrate whether the grain will hold.

  Get your half inch thick bellies and side taper them a bit.  Then bend them, without a backing until you are sure they will break.  At least half the draw length.   Bend it until you wince, turn your head away, and start closing your eyes.  If it doesn't break, make your bow.

[Wooden Spring]

The only advice I can give you is to use a non-water based glue. Every time that I have built a bow  with resinous woods with Titebond, it has broken. I have since then gone with resourcinol at the suggestion of a boat building friend of mine and I haven't had a problem since.

Sorry, I have to disagree. I use TB3 for all my glue-ups, with no problems, with all wood including ipe. I don't clean ipe with acetone first either. I simply use a freshly sanded, dust free surface. Titebond requires careful surface prep, but it's fine glue. Perhaps if your bows are breaking, it's for another reason.

Nope. It's the glue. I've used TB3 for over 25 years and never had a delaminating problem until I used it for resinous woods in bow making.

I still suggest you have another issue besides the glue.

The problem is that Titebond dries flexible and doesn't handle extremes in heat and humidity. When I have had bows blow up, it's always been during summer shooting events when heat and humidity are way up.

On the other hand, when I have forced resorcinol to break, it always ripped the wood apart, revealing its far superior bonding ability.