Build along with halfeye and I (finished - full draw added)

[Sidmand]

I have been wanting to pull off a bendy handle short(ish) bow for some time.  I
personally really like the look and feel of that kind of bow, it really speaks
to me.  I also recently read Jim Hamm's great "Bow's and Arrows of the Native
Americans", which describes many of he native american bows, and I like them
all.  But, I really am draw towards the shorter, plains indian style bows.  That
being said, I only have some Ipe and a strip of bamboo available to me, so I
wanted to get the best result I could with what I had on hand. I have lurked
about on Primitive Archer for a while, and drooled over many of the bows I have
seen here, but my personal favorites tend to be very short bendy bows, and many
of those were built by Rich.  So, I PM'ed him and asked for help, which he
graciously extended!  I'm quite excited about it.  We spoke on the phone last
Friday for about a half hour or so, and based on that conversation, we came up
with the following layout:

After working that up, I explained that I only have a few hours a weekend to
work on my own projects but that I would get started ASAP.  The following posts
outline our work in progress, and hopefully we come out with a great shooter.

[Sidmand]

After having Rich look over my layout and getting some suggestions and an
        overall "GO!", I picked my material and started marking it up.  I had a
        few sticks of Ipe at just about 5/8" thick.  I also had a piece of
        bamboo that was about 70" long and 2" wide.  I grabbed those guys with
        the idea of a 60" overall length bow, with 59" nock to nock, using the
        Ipe as the belly and the boo as a backing.  I did modify the
        layout a little and made the tips thicker per Rich's suggestion, 5/8" vs. 3/8"
        per the drawing, to leave a little wiggle room on the ends for now.  We can always
        make them thinner, can't make em thicker as easily.  I marked the boo and the
        Ipe up with a sharpie, marking centerline and lines 6" out from the center on each
        side to show that I wanted to full width for that whole section, which
        will be the handle/grip area.

Then I marked the width taper on each side from there to the tips.

On the Ipe I marked both sides.  Initially I wasn't sure which one I'd end up using
        for glue and which one for belly.  I eventually made that determination by
        looking at the Ipe, it had a little bit of natural reflex in it, so I figured
        I'd take advantage of that and glue it up with the "u" side or bowl of the bend as the
        glue.  I marked that side as the "glue side", and the other as the belly.

        I also blacked in the stuff to cut away.  I also marked the nodes on the bamboo
        with pencil, don't know why, just because I thought it might show up better in
        pictures that way.

[Sidmand]

I do all my wood removal with a drawknife, a Nicholson #49 rasp, a big
        bastard file, and a Mystic Longbows stainless steel scraper.  Once I figured out how to
        sharpen the scraper, it is a great tool.  You don't (well, I don't)
        burnish it like a cabinet scraper, you just file it flat with a big ole
        file at a good 90 degree angle, which creates a good burr.

        I started out with the boo, using the drawknife to take the thickness
        down to the point where it was about 1/8" thick in the center, and knife
        edged on the sides.  I stopped when I could see that I had removed all
        the pithy stuff on the glue side of the boo, and had nothing but long
        power fibers showing.  Then, I took the scraper and cleaned it all up,
        knocking down any humps and giving the boo a nice smooth backside for
        gluing.

        Next step I took was to start taking down the Ipe.  I clamped it down on
        it's edge on my "workspace", and started taking off material on the
        limbs and the center.  Having marked up both sides helped a lot this
        time cause I could bevel the sharp edges with the draw knife, then
        flatten out the middle.  Went pretty fast, I had it roughed out in about
        15 or 20 minutes.  Then I took the scraper after it and smother
        everything out again.
 

 

[Sidmand]

With the Ipe roughed out, I layed it on the boo and traced out the
        shape.  I wanted to get some of the excess material off the boo, so I
        clamped it carefully to the side of my work surface and then carefully
        removed the edges of the boo with my drawknife. I cut off the ends as
        well with my crappy Harbor Freight pullsaw, I didn't take pics of that.

        Once all that's done, I checked it out by just putting the Ipe on the
        boo.  Looks to line up pretty good..

[Sidmand]

 I did the glueup differently this time based on directions from Rich.  I
        first started by scoring the Ipe.  I couldn't find a hacksaw blade, but
        I looked at my rasp and saw the edge of the tool had a lot of teeth on
        it very similar to a hacksaw, so I improvised.  I scored the Ipe with
        long lines on the glue surface.

        After that, I wiped the Ipe and the boo down really well with Acetone.
        I know that Ipe is oily, so I wanted to make sure that was taken care
        of.  I hit the boo as well, cause I figured it wouldn't hurt.  Once it
        was dry, I buttered up both my glue surfaces with Titebond 3, using my fingers to spread
        the glue in a thick coat on both pieces of wood.  I gave it a few
        minutes, then ran another quick bead of glue to make sure I had enough
        and spread it out with my fingers again.

        Now, I put the pieces together.  I took some plastic wrap, and I wrapped
        the whole bow from tip to tip as tight as I could.  This was a figety
        pain in the butt with one person, might have been easier with two.  But,
        I got it done and nothing slipped around, the two pieces were nice and
        matched up and seemed to be held quite tightly together at this point.

        Next step was to wrap the whole thing with a strip of bike innertube.  I
        left gaps in the wrap of about an inch or so.  I used spring clamps to
        hold the ends of the tubes at the tips of the bow, then used a long bar
        clamp to pull the bow into perry reflex.  The ends of the bow were
        resting on my 2x4 "reflex blocks", each block is padded as well to keep
        the bow both stable and to protect the wood..

        I waited about a few hours, then went out and cut the plastic wrap
        between the tube and ripped it up to allow air into the glue.  I let it
        dry like that for about 15 hours or so after that, nearly 24 hours
        total.  I pulled it off the "form" and unwrapped it all, and checked my
        glue lines which looked good.  No pictures of that yet, will post them
        this weekend after I get all the glue boogers cleaned up.  I have 3
        inches of reflex in the bow at this point.  Next steps are cleanup, then
        thickness taper of the limbs and start floor tillering.  That will come
        this weekend.

[JonW]

Good start. I like the looks of this project.

[half eye]

Sidmand,
      You have been a busy man for sure, looks like ya got her headed in the right direction, nice.
rich

[blackhawk]

Wood u like some constructive criticism?  There's several things to be addressed

[Sidmand]

Wood u like some constructive criticism?  There's several things to be addressed

sure, I don't mind constructive criticism. 

[crooketarrow]

 Like BLACK HAWK said but looks like a really good start.

   60" BOW  I DON'T CONCEDER A SHORT BOW

  I like  eastern indain bows. Which are 56,58"s to 62"s in some tribes. I make my personal gobbler bows. Where I shoot off my butt.
  54,56"s.  I conceder a 40 to 50 inch bow a short bow. I'm sure theres a few on here that build western plains bows.

 That can explain it better than me.


  Don't worry about  the leanth if you think 60's short by all means make it 60"s. You've got a nice peice's of woods started you could make any leanth you want. Tilling short bows well there not for the inexspearanced OR FAINT AT HEARTI've broke 6 or 7 short bows. I use to build all types of bows just to do it. Short indain bows don't fit my ways of hunting.

   I'm a buck anf gobbler hunter first I build bows and everything I need for hunting second. Bulding bows isn't my only hobby. I make knives. Manage the farms I hunt,and for 2 others.
  Fly fish when I can,sang the eary fall, collect pray mantis egg caseings (nests) in the winter.

   My familys third just the way it's worked out through the years.  Do'nt worry they've never really suffered. MATTER FACT THEY'VE LIVED GOOD AS FAR AS I HAVE SEEN. But I've been away a time or 3 hunting everywhere I could. ONE YEAR I BUCK HUNTED 130 DAYS IN A ROW.

[blackhawk]

Did you glue it up like that with the bamboo wider than the ipe? If so that will cause the boo to "cup" using the wrapping method...the glue lines might look good on the sides where all the pressure is,but in the middle it "could" possibly be a starved glue joint. If starved enough it'll eventually fail...may not happen right away,but the longevity of it lasting a long time is in jeapordy.

Continuing with the glue....don't score the surfaces deep using the titebond glues..and you don't have to and shouldn't score them at all...these type of glues are NOT gap filling property glues like two part epoxies. And when ya make gaps with these glues you are compromising the glue joint even more,and it won't be an "optimum" glue joint. I hope you didn't score deep gashes in it and kept it more just a roughed up surface. But that in conjunction with the possibility of cupping like I previously stated compromises the glue joint even more. Always follow the manufacturers instructions, and not what someone else says

Next...thickness taper your lams. See how all your reflex is in the handle? Unless you intended it that way(then fine if that's your prerogative), but you'll end up with something that is hard to put shape into at glue up. A thickness tapered lam will reflex evenly,and give you a nice graceful progressive reflex towards the tips shape. Setback handle bows like that have a less than desired force draw curve with straight limbs,and will want to stack earlier,and also it stresses the limbs more making it more prone to taking set and crushing the belly wood cells more if not designed for it,or not tillered well.

[Sidmand]

Thanks blackhawk, I really do appreciate the feedback.  I'm going to try to explain what I did better and then cross my fingers that I neither offend anyone or end up with a worse case scenario and a busted bow, so here goes.

I did the glueup with the boo wider than the Ipe, it's at most 1/8 inch wider, probably less in most cases.  I hope that isn't to much of an issue since I don't have any more bamboo at the moment, but if it delaminates on me then I will have learned something.  I did NOT score the surface of the Ipe deeply at all, more just roughed it up a tiny bit.  Truth be told, I was thinking that I didn't score it enough, but I have used Titebond on a few other bows and several other projects and I knew it wasn't a gap filler, so I just kind of went with it with the light scoring because I knew the glue wouldn't expand and fill any deep gouges.  I can see a benefit to having more glue surface though, which is why scoring it makes sense to me.  But as you pointed out, maybe with the possible cupping and with the possibility of a less than adequate surface I might regret that.  I hope not, but it certainly won't be the first bow I broke or screwed up.  I did get even squeeze out on the innertube wrap, but not a lot of glue squeezed out, so I'm pretty confident I didn't starve the joints.  Only time will tell at this point but I will keep an eye on the joints during tillering for sure.

It's already glued up at this point and I'm going to thickness taper the limbs this weekend.  I will try to take a pic or two of the bow tonight to show you what it looks like off the form, but (to my less than trained eye), it looks like an even curve from tip to tip with around 3 inches of reflex taken.  I had wondered whether to do the taper prior to the glueup but did not ask, and in hindsight I can see that it might have been better to do it prior to, but it's too late now.   I did another bow that I am finishing up in the same manner as above and it's a good shooter, but I was a bit aggressive in my thickness taper and tillering.  I tapered from the center of the bow to the tips (vs. leaving it full thickness for a few inches out of center) and ended up with a 30# bow vs. a 45# or 50# bow.  It shoots quite well though, and my daughter likes it a lot, so she will get it and I will hope to get a good one out of this one.

[Sidmand]

I did some measuring and checking last night and took some pictures of the bow now that its glued up.  I wanted a way to check it that was a bit more scientific then what I started with, which was "put it on the table and measure the bend":


So, I grabbed some paper from a big roll I have and put it on a bench.  I have several 1/8" thick pieces of redoak that I cut for slats (I thought they were white oak, I was wrong).  I used one as a long strait edge, and then I butted the tips of the bow up to it and traced the strait line and the curve of the belly of the bow:


Then, I drew lines every six inches out from center to show where I wanted to measure the limb reflex from the centerline:



Using a ruler, I then measured the reflex and wrote down the results.  I was actually surprised that I came out within 1/16 or so of matching across both limbs:

[half eye]

Sidmand, Your progress looks good so far, You may want to tuck that advice away for future use and either glue up while everything is still the same width and then cut to shape, or try align backing and belly with a exact width match....but in no case have the thin backing wider than the belly. While cupping is a real issue I do not believe you will have a cupping problem on this bow because of the way you went about it.
      The fact that you are using only the limited hand tools can make things a bit problematic, but like I said I believe your fine on the glue up.....time will tell sir.

I'm curious to know if you done any preliminary bending to get a sense of the available power? I think you are going to be pleasantly suprised.
rich
       

[Knoll]

Great read.  Thanks for taking the considerable time/effort to document your build!

Question ... what's purpose of the plastic wrap?