ERC

[butch]

questions... to use standing dead or live trees.
                          heartwood or sapwood.
                          follow a ring.
                          lower trunk w/ less limbs.

[1/2primitive]

Well, I've only made one cedar bow, so I'm by no means an expert, but this is what I used for it. Live tree, did nothing except peel the bark off. Part sapwood, part heart. Because I peeled the bark off, it did follow a ring. It was a sapling bow, so it was just about the whole trunk, lol.
As I said, I'm not the expert, so don't take my word for granted. 
    Sean

[Minuteman]

Your best bet is gonna be a live standing tree. That way you know what has happened to the wood and how it was handled.
 That being said i didn't pass up a PERFECT 10 foot log I found sitting on the "to be cut for firewood pile" at a buddy's work. It had been down for a few weeks but cedar is very rot resistant so I took the chance.
  I can't tell you how hard it would be to follow a ring. Marc StLouis has done it I believe on an ELB he made a while back.
 I've seen bows made from erc that were sinew backed and had no heartwood in the limbs at all. Just a little in the handle. I've also seen them that were all heartwood with a hikree back, or heartwood with a chased ring of thin sapwood  for the back.
 I built one a long time ago and had it backed with rawhide, til the glue started letting go. I pulled the skin off and backed it with jute twine . It came off too( think my glue was bad) so I just shot it like a selfbow.It was only a 40# bow but it shot like a 50 pounder as far as speed goes.
 Made that one with a pocket knife in the kitchen!
It exploded while I was test drawing it one day.
 Definitely go with the fewest knots you can, that usually means the trunk of the tree.
 I've got about thirty staves and some billets of that stuff, I gotta get busy. Its hard to put that much work into a bow of cedar when they seem to be so tempermental about holding together.
 Chris

[sonny]

62" heartwood stiff-handled flatbow with sinew back makes a fine combination if you ask me.
I went and cut a tree yesterday to make another just as described...
I plan to rough it out to near finished dimension and sinew back it in the next few weeks.

 
 

[tom sawyer]

My two cents is that ERC is rot resistant so if the wood of a dead tree isn't checked (cracks) it should be OK to use.

As for heartwood/sapwood, there isn't the same ring-specific delineation in ERC from what I've seen.  Its more like walnut, the tree just seems to start making the heartwood extractives at some point and the stuff works its way from inside out.  Towards the outer "ring" of the heartwood area you get swirls of heartwood/sapwood that are very interesting to look at.

I recently made a backed bow of almost all heartwood, the stuff still seems quite low mass.  So I don't know that the extractives in heartwood do all that much to improve the qualities of the wood.  I think you could make a bow out of wood with swirls of sapwood and heartwood, and just decide on your design according to the mass of the specimen.  As a low mass wood you'll want to use a design that doesn't put too much stress on the limbs.  As in, plenty long enough and wide enough.

Good luck, ERC is an easy wood to work and has a great smell.  Finding stuff with a minimum of knots seems to be the biggest challenge.

[Pat B]

ERC heartwood is rot resistant but I don't believe the sapwood is. I have found old ERC fence posts that the sapwood had rotted off and the heartwood was still sound.
   Bruce Chrysler has an all ERC sapwood ELB style bow that he brought to my Camp-O-Rama last summer that was surprising fast and had very little set if I remember correctly.    Pat

[butch]

thanks guys. i have been doing tree removal since the okie ice storm and have a few erc to take out. 1 has 12' of trunk with few fissures 15" dia. and no limbs. about 1\3 of our trees hit, you wouldnt believe what the big woods look like. you cant see 30 yards with all the hanging limbs, some trees literaly split down the middle to the ground. any body want some wood?

[mullet]

  I shot Bruces' bow at Pat's last year. I was amazed at how fast that bow shot and no string follow when it was unstrung. He was so humble with his bow and I thought it was a totally new idea, break through bow.It was almost all sapwood,/i never would have thought it would work.

[Sidewinder]

How long do you have to dry it before you can work it? I am very interested in ERC.

Hey Mullet are you going to OJAM? bring some ERC there and we can make some bows out of it.

Would 2" wide pyramid style tapered to 1/2" tips work well with this wood, or would it need to be wider for a 64" bow?

Danny

[Auggie]

I made a cedar bow for my nephew this christmas, it turned out okay, the upper limb had a huge knot, it hampered the tiller a bit, but it ended up okay.  60 inch nock to nock,32@ 28. His dad tryed it out, and killed one of moms big outdoor ornaments at 15 yards. He was quite surprised at the arras pass thru, its a pretty snappy bow,I wonder about its overall life span though. it was made from a 2inch trunk. Try it youll like it!

[Hillbilly]

Sonny, how wide are the limbs on your sinew-backed cedar bow? I remember being quite impressed with it after seeing it in person at Hickory. Looks great, and shoots great, too. A sinewed ERC is on my to-do list.

[sonny]

1-3/4" wide, tapering the last 8" or so to 1/2" wide limb tips.

[Pat B]

I remember that bow at Hickory also, Sonny. Bring it back this year so we can see it...and you again.
     Pat

[nugget]

Hillbilly I believe you have a real nice piece to work with.
 I also remember that all sap wood cedar at Pats house. That thing was fast.
The cedar bow I made for my wife is fast. It is 40# @ 24" and out shoots my 60# Osage bow. She shoots my arrows . I am impressed with cedar. I got a bunch to work with,but i can't leave the Osage alone.