Author Topic: In praise of white oak...  (Read 11503 times)

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Offline Wooden Spring

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2015, 12:01:11 pm »
I don't think you can praise a wood that's backed with another.

Agreed. We just went thru this whole debate with ERC. Alone, it's a risk. Backed, it's transformed.

White oak is good bow wood, but backed with hickory changes it. I also think white oak is a much better tension strong backing wood than belly wood.

So, if indeed that is the case, then using the same quarter sawn white oak to back a belly of white oak (in order to glue in reflex) should make a good bow as well. I've done that with hickory with good results.
"Everything that moves shall be food for you..." Genesis 9:3

blackhawk

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2015, 12:03:40 pm »
I don't think you can praise a wood that's backed with another.

Agreed. We just went thru this whole debate with ERC. Alone, it's a risk. Backed, it's transformed.

White oak is good bow wood, but backed with hickory changes it. I also think white oak is a much better tension strong backing wood than belly wood.

+1....You've only shown how far your piece of hickory will bend...not the white oak...if you wanna know how good your white oak is then bend it unbacked.

Offline bubby

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2015, 12:09:58 pm »


Agreed. We just went thru this whole debate with ERC. Alone, it's a risk. Backed, it's transformed.

White oak is good bow wood, but backed with hickory changes it. I also think white oak is a much better tension strong backing wood than belly wood.
[/quote]

+1....You've only shown how far your piece of hickory will bend...not the white oak...if you wanna know how good your white oak is then bend it unbacked.


Agreed, heck a good piece of white oak will out bend hickory
failure is an option, everyone fails, it's how you handle it that matters.
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Offline arachnid

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2015, 01:26:10 pm »
Tim Baker wrote that white oak brakes after hickory in bend tests. I wonder if that's the reson white oak tends to take more set?

Offline Springbuck

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2015, 02:08:20 pm »
 ;)  This is exactly why I started doing about as many white oak backings as hickory backing.  The bonus is that they are both beautiful, but visually quite different.

Offline DavidV

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2015, 03:23:08 pm »
There's a big difference between good white oak and bad white oak. Overdried, thin ringed, and iffy grain have killed 4 of my white oak bows all from different boards. 2 survivors: one thin ringed but backed with brown paper and one selfbow with solid rings and straight grain. If I make any more from white oak it'll be from staves.
Springfield, MO

Offline Badger

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2015, 03:34:13 pm »
  The test was interesting but testing to failure has little to do with bows. Failure is starting to occur when the bow starts taking set. Just because the hickory broke forst does not mean it was the first to fail. The white oak may have crushed long before the hickory actually broke. Bubby made a bow of hickory backed paduak. The bow came out nice because he used the wood within its limits. P aduak is known to chrysal if overstrained. So I would say testing to destruction won't give you anything useful. Don't feel bad I used to do it all the time LOL.

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2015, 03:37:43 pm »
I have tested to failure many times, ,but I dont think I was intending to test :) :)

Offline Wooden Spring

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2015, 03:53:50 pm »
  The test was interesting but testing to failure has little to do with bows. Failure is starting to occur when the bow starts taking set. Just because the hickory broke forst does not mean it was the first to fail. The white oak may have crushed long before the hickory actually broke. Bubby made a bow of hickory backed paduak. The bow came out nice because he used the wood within its limits. P aduak is known to chrysal if overstrained. So I would say testing to destruction won't give you anything useful. Don't feel bad I used to do it all the time LOL.

I've never been able to build a bow that hasn't taken set...  But then, I had been under the impression that as long as the set wasn't excessive to the point that it slowed the bow down to a point of being an unacceptable shooter, then it really doesn' harm the bow. I mean, isn't someone's quote: "set happens..."

Sure, our goal is to avoid as much set as possible - we heat treat, glue in reflex, etc., but if we're looking to make a bow without any set, aren't we striving for that which is unobtainable?

And for that matter, what does set really tell us? Was some aspect of the wood itself being "not right?" Was it a poor design? Was it a poor execution of construction? Or is it just something that happens?
"Everything that moves shall be food for you..." Genesis 9:3

Offline Badger

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2015, 06:54:13 pm »
  Yes, they all take set but at some point if it becomes excessive we might decide to call a bow failed even though it didn't break. The point is that testuing to failure is for structural engineering, bows have a different standard.

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2015, 07:31:27 pm »
I've made more than a few selfbows from white oak and it is pretty darn indestructible. Jawge
Set Happens!
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Offline Joec123able

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2015, 07:45:58 pm »
Hackberry will bend even further than that  8)
I like osage

Offline missilemaster

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #27 on: February 03, 2015, 12:27:34 am »
I think that this test just shows how well hickory does in tension.  Try the same thing with a white oak self bow, no backing.
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mikekeswick

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2015, 03:48:43 am »
All this talk of using hickory with run-offs is making me cringe!!! ;)
I used to think the same....oh it's hickory ,it'll be ok.
Well after making many elb's with hickory backs and typically ipe bellies has made me think otherwise. All these bows taught me that hickory WILL fail at grain violations. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but you have to be aware that all you are relying on to keep it together is the interlocking nature of the fibers.....this strength compared to uncut fibers strength isn't even in the same ballpark. Backings with violations may be fine on wider, flat backed flatbows but a crowned back and very compression resistant bellies soon show the error in using violated hickory. Trust me on this one!

Offline H Rhodes

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Re: In praise of white oak...
« Reply #29 on: February 13, 2015, 10:18:46 am »
I think that this test just shows how well hickory does in tension.  Try the same thing with a white oak self bow, no backing.
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