Author Topic: qestion aboute asiatic bow...  (Read 15735 times)

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Offline akila

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qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« on: January 19, 2008, 07:33:48 am »
Hello ...im thinking in making a self bow, that looks like an asiatic bow...do you think its  posibile? and iff you think so, where shoud i put the bendings in the bow, to make him look like an asiatic bow???I know that first i should bend the tips( recurve themm), but i dont know in the handle aria how should i proceed....should i try to put some reflex just in the handle aria , so that the bow have that asian look??? thks in advance...

Offline bootboy

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2008, 08:51:42 am »
Well a really quick way mate is to make a gull winged bow like the scythians, Pre-syahs
Just steam the handle and reflex the heck out of it on a form, and tiller from there it would like great.
knapp 'um if you got 'um

Offline akila

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2008, 11:14:13 am »
Well a really quick way mate is to make a gull winged bow like the scythians, Pre-syahs
Just steam the handle and reflex the heck out of it on a form, and tiller from there it would like great.

Yeahhh...i wass thinking on that..and maybe to bend the tips , and try to make themm look like syahs ( a little thicker and narrow as posibile)...you think it would hold together a bow like this..?? im thinking that with so much reflex and recurving tips, maybe the stress will be to high for the limbs....maybe 2 layers of sinew will help?? i would realy love to make a self bow that looks like an asiatic bow.... ::)

Offline Pat B

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2008, 11:41:05 am »
I'd say use a very strong wood. This style will put lots of stress, both compression and tension, on the wood. That is the reason the Asiatic bows had horn bellies(high compression strength) and sinew backs(high tensile strength).  If you use a strong in compression/strong in tension wood and add a bit more length and width you may have favorable results.      Pat
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline mullet

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2008, 12:33:58 pm »
  Chris Cade made a "hornless" horn bow a few years back. It came from a back issue of PA. It had a lot of sinew on the back and had glue on siyahs.I'll dig through my back issues and find it.
Lakeland, Florida
 If you have to pull the trigger, is it really archery?

Offline akila

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2008, 01:02:20 pm »
Hi...and thks guys for replays...i have some ash and honey locust available for this kind of bow..i dont know wich one is the best...honey locust is a little harder thenn ash but i dont know...it will be nice iff  you could find that bow made  by Chris Cade..thks a lot.I realy like this asian bows, but i dont have acces to materiales, to build one...so i wanna try make a self-bow that looks like an asian bow..

Offline mullet

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2008, 09:12:00 pm »
  Akila, the build-along is in the volume 6 issue 4 magazine. It's called a Turkish Bow without the horn.
Lakeland, Florida
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Offline Dane

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2008, 09:13:15 am »
Akilia, here is a link to a guy who made an Asiatic recurve without using horn, but bamboo instead. It was still built using the same techniques as a horn / wood / sinew bow, so no shortcuts, just another kind of material instead of horn.

http://www.atarn.org/FAQ/bamboo_composite.htm. Atarn in general is a great site for Asiatic bows.
Greenfield, Western Massachusetts

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2008, 02:30:52 pm »
Honestly an Asiatic style is defined by the use of horn and sinew.  I suppose you are wanting to make a selfbow or sinewed bow that has the basic shape of an Asiatic bow, in other words it has siyahs.  That would make it a static tip recurve with the static tips exxagerated over what is conventionally employed.  The Asians didn't use horn and sinew for fun, they had to use these materials because wood can't take the compression or tension of the kind of hard bend they used in their bows.

You need to do a few things to be successful.  The siyahs are no problem, you just either bend your wood or glue on siyahs like the Asians did.  Try and use lightweight materials for siyahs, and make them thin and deep so you minimize mass yet have the stiffness you require.  No bending in a siyah.  Also, you need to have a low enough bend in your working limbs so you don't damage the wood.  This means the working limb is going to have to be long enough and wide enough to handle the bend you are aksing of it.  The siyahs are going to make it easy to crank those limbs, they are great levers.  So you need to know the limbs won't buckle under the pressure.  You can use bamboo backing if you want, that puts relatively more stress on the belly of the limb.  It does generate more poundage with less wood though.

Some things to avoid.  I wouldn't try making very short working limbs.  If you use sinew it would let you make a shorter limb with a harder bend, sinew is great for that.  Still, without horn you need to make the working limb longer than an Asiatic bow.  You also want to use less reflex than an asiatic bow, you'll be stressing your limbs enough by bending, they don't need to add to the pressure by reflexing the working limb.  Wood can only take so much.  I would also not tiller like an Asiatic, often they bend hardest right off the handle.  This will kill your all-wood limbs.  I would spread the bend out over your entire working limb, get as close to the fades as possible.  Keep in mind, you have fades off the handle AND off the siyahs.  This makes for twice the tricky spots as a conventional longbow.  But it can certainly be done, people do make static recurves.  So many of the static recurves I've seen, have some set in the limbs that pretty much negatees the reflex of the tips.  At that point you've lost what advantage you might have gained from a recurve.  But since you are wanting a look (Asiatic), you can live with that.

Basically, you want to make a modest design, longer than an Asiatic and maybe a little wider limbs.  Keep the rule of having as much working limb as draw length, so you'll want 28" of working limb for  28" draw.  No 48" bows here.  56" for a bend-through the handle bow would be my suggestion, and build the handle area up with leather or something bendy to make it look like the stiff handle of an Asiatic composite.  Then add the siyahs to that 56" bow.  Might make them around 4-6" instead of the longer siyahs you see on a lot of Asiatics.  Try and keep the poundage reasonable.  It'll still look like what you want, but it'll be stable.  It might always have a bit of kick from the mass of the siyahs.  But we're going for looks here.

Good luck, and keep us posted.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline akila

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2008, 01:54:05 pm »
Hi again..and thks for all your replays....i know that horn and sinew is whatt is all aboute  asiatic bows, but here its verry dificult to find those materials to make such a bow....here i cant even find bamboo ,wich is seam to me that you all have there at a verry cheap price...si i realy dont have to much options...i do have a little sinew that i can use and i have find today some bamboo, but its not a single piece of bamboo, its something like 2"wide, 80" long, and aboute half an inchi thick,  and it is made from 8 pieces of bamboo glued together.Small striaps of bamboo glued together....and i wass looking  a little more closely, and those strips, warr not glue together werry well..i think i can separate those 8 pieces, and my question is.....you think i can use for the belly.. 2 strips of bamboo glued together?? ...i mean, insted of one single piece , to put 2 pieces next to eachothe?...( 1 strip is aboute half an inchi.....so iff i glue 2 pieces next to eachother i could cover the intire belly of the bow)

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #10 on: January 21, 2008, 03:15:01 pm »
I don't think bamboo has any advantages over other woods as a belly material.  It is best used as a backing.  I think you could use two strips glued side by side as a backing if that is what you have to work with.

A sinewed bow limb is really going to be your best option.  Sinew lets a bow limb bend farther than it could without the sinew.  It will allow you to make reasonably short limbs so your poject will have more of the look of a short Asiatic style.  Some of the Asiatic bows are longer anyway, often they would be very heavy poundage but you can duplicate them in a lighter weight without the horn.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline akila

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #11 on: January 21, 2008, 04:07:14 pm »
Thks a lot for your help...i wass thinking aboute bamboo for the belly , becose i have seen something similar...an asiatic bow with sinew on the back and bamboo for the belly for better compresion .....i wass surprised my self to see that bamboo wass used for the belly becose i know that bamboo its verry good for backing....i dont realy know  how to do the syahs, but maybe i will  bend the wood that i already have , and make  it like a static recurve...

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2008, 05:40:55 pm »
Bamboo can be as strong in compressoin as wood.  I just don't see where it is likely to be stronger, unless you have no access to good bow woods.  So there is really no reason to add the complexity of the project, when there is no real advantage.  some people just do things like that for fun of course, and that is a good reason.

You can splice the siyahs with a v-splice.  That is not too difficult.  I made an Asiatic composite style bow awhile back, I don't have the pics of the splice as I was doing it but you can see in a couple of these photos hos it was done.  The siyah is walnut, and the core is bamboo so you can see the v-splice nicely.

http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/62tomsawyer/Asiatic%20Composite%20Bow/
Lennie
Hannibal, MO

Offline akila

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2008, 06:17:47 pm »
wauuu...nice bow..thks for the pictures....the bow is realy gr8..i love it...can you tell me plz, is there a roule that i have to respect whenn i make the siyah??? do i have to folow the grain or??? i realy dont know how to make those siyah...thks in advance

Offline tom sawyer

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Re: qestion aboute asiatic bow...
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2008, 06:54:47 pm »
What I did, is to consider what angle the string would be pulling against the wood at full draw.  Then I oriented the wood so the string wouldn't be digging in parallel to the grain.  I thought this would make it more likely to split, especially given that I was using walnut which is a fairly light wood.

I really don't think it matters too much though.

I would also suggest that you check out ATARN's the Asiatic bow forum.  Google ATARN and find the forum, then search it for build-alongs and photos of these bows.  I got some inspiration there.  Not a whole lot of help, the forum is not real active and they are definitely into making replicas.
Lennie
Hannibal, MO