burried in water bow stave

[Hrothgar]

There was a discussion a year or two ago about drying vs. curing a stave-- and I don't care to re-open that can of worms. Robert Hardy in his book 'The longbow: A Social and Military History' noted that it was common practice in the Middle Ages to season yew for a couple years in a running stream. I don't remember the rationale he provided. It would tend to discourage further insect/borer damage, and keep the wood from drying out to quickly while submerged. However I think a person would still have to treat a submerged stave with a little bit more care than one which had been air dried for several years.

[sleek]

You know what? I just remembered I have a stave of submerged wood. A buddy of mine pulled it out while fishing. No clue on the wood type. It was so old though it was sunk. I will post a pic in a few days and build a bow of it. Probably gonna go low weight ish on it and wide as I can just to see if it will work.

[Sidewinder]

I love this kind of discusion.  Anyone else?

[Chadwick]

On p. 21 of TBB IV, it is explained that decay is mainly caused by fungi, not bacteria, and the wood is protected if over 30% MC. Decay fungi is most likely to grow between 20% and 30% MC. So yeah, storing wood underwater will keep it from decaying.

[Greebe]

Would the water not breakdown the wood fibers over the years though?

[Jim Davis]

No. There has been a thriving market in harvesting  trees that have been underwater for 100 years or so. The demand is that the trees were not second growth like most of the forest of today.  They actually have hydraulic chainsaws for underwater work.

Don't for get, Osage can be a fence post for 100 years and still be suitable for bow making. And wood rots many times faster at the ground surface than buried in soil or underwater.

Jim Davis

[Holten101]

Interesting discussion:-).

Im sure natives could control checking and drying just fine (even without an attic;-). I also dont buy the "prevent rot" explanation (yet), since we have allready established that osage can survive for decades as fence posts and still make perfectly good bows. As for seasoning I have yet to see any tangible proof, that seasoned staves make better bows (better as in, worth the effort of seasoning).

This pretty much leaves storage. Im thinking water/mud storage would only make sense for a people that migrates. Unprocessed bow staves would be hell to travel with for people with a nomadic lifestyle, but can be stored mores easily than in a bog, if the settlement was permanent.
But I admit that, that is really just pushing the problem ahead....submerged staves will still have to be dried, and it will take as long when retrived from water, as it would when the wood was green.

Alternativly the "water curing" does something to the wood that eases the work of turning it into a bow. I dont think partial rot (rot of the sapwood only) is it....submerged wood last forever almost. Bug prevention is a possibility....but dont you just push the problem ahead?....I mean, the staves still have to be dried and thus the bug issue returns.

Just my thoughts on the subject;-)

Cheers

[wapiti1997]

Has anyone ever seen a mushroom growing on osage?  I have not, moss yes, no fungi.  I know where there are hedgerows bulldozed 30 years ago of downed osage, still intact, no fungi...  Sorry to get off topic.. anyone?

[osage outlaw]

Don't think I've ever seen any mushrooms growing on it.  I have seen some mold/mildew growing on the sapwood only of some staves stored in a damp moldy place.

[sleek]

I have seen moldy sapwood. Have a piece right now.

[cdpbrewer]

Just a wild guess:  Maybe submerging osage keeps the heartwood in a green state and hence easier to rough out a bow with the stone tools used by Cherokee bowyers.   Maybe the sap wood would get alot softer than the heart wood for easier stripping.     Besides, after cutting down a osage tree or even a limb with stone tools, the Cherokee likely didn't want to fool with the osage again for a long time 

c.d.

[bradsmith2010]

just keeping the sap wood soft and keeping the bugs out or killing the ones there would be enough

[Onebowonder]

I've posted on here before that my grandfather (...a fellow of some native american heritage in Appalachia) used to supplement his income by building high strength Hickory handles for axes, picks, and shovels.  His trick was to bury the pre-shaped and roughed out handles in the pig sloughs on his hog farm.  They'd stay in that soupy mess for a year or two, sometimes longer, then he'd move the hogs to a new pen and harvest the handles out of the old one.  Not sure if it's related - but it didn't seem to be too far off topic.   

OneBow

[JW_Halverson]

Storage of staves makes some sense to me as well.  In the upper and central plains states, tribes used to store their grinding stones close to common camp sites rather than carry around 30-100 lb rocks.  They would tote them out from the campsite and flip 'em over upside down.  It would look just like any other rock to another tribe passing thru.  When you passed thru this area again the next year, or several years later, just go find it again.  But if an enemy tribe found it, they would  move it or break it if possible.  While it sounds like a small thing, those stones took generations to wear in until they worked well.  Losing one was like losing the work of your mother, her mother, and her grandmother.

Well, store your staves in a local pond and they won't end up like one of our member's osage stash getting used in a teenager's bonfire!

[sleek]

I think of him every so often... hope he worked those teenagers to the bone and got some good osage back from it. Twice what he lost.