Flight Warbow?

[Del the cat]

Not sure if flight warbow isn't a contradiction in terms, but I'm thinking of making a few flight bows next year, two being warbows 90 -120# and one more like a primitive.
Problem in the UK is there aren't any flight shoots with a primitive category so I'd be up against carbon and f/glass (spits on floor). I'm looking at maybe trying to set up a primitive flight meet if I can find a venue.... problem is , most land owners just don't understand bows and it's rather hard finding out who actually owns the land in the first place.
There are flight shoots for longbow and warbow, mind with at least 3 different deffinitions of "longbow" even that gets a bit silly
I'm thinking or Hazel and Elm for warbows (meane wood bows) and maybe Laburnum for the primitive.
Probably going to buy a laser rangefinder too with some money the Santa gave me
With a warbow there's the trade off of draw length vs limb mass. Maybe a hint of RD and a stiffer mid section would help, I'll also be going wide as possible within the 5/8 depth width ratio rule. Trapped back, heat treated belly.
S'pose I'm rambling rather, but I'd be interested in any thoughts, comments etc.
Seasons greetings to one and all of course, and lets hope for another great year of bow making on PA
Del

[redhawk55]

Mass of the limbs is the  challenge here!
Do the bow as short and narrow as a warbow could be.
Greatest challenge here is to find an arrow matching the high drawweight and not being to heavy.
Michael

[Marc St Louis]

The problem I see Del is if you want to compete with the Warbows then you'll have to comply with the rules over there and my understanding is that they are a bit "tight around the collar"

[Del the cat]

The problem I see Del is if you want to compete with the Warbows then you'll have to comply with the rules over there and my understanding is that they are a bit "tight around the collar"

Hi, yes, but there are more than one society shooting "warbow/longbow"
The ILAA has an excellent, very well documented and quite loose longbow definition, allowing as much deflex/reflex as you wish on the grounds that the wood will limit itself. Each clause of the definition has the reasoning behind it explained which is very refreshing.
Just in case anyone is interested here it is.
http://www.longbow-archers-association.org/definitionlongbow.html
Del

[Badger]

       I would love to see the flight rules re written for english long bows, not familiar with warbow rules. The current 50# record by Dan Perry is about 340 something yards. This is one of the more impressive records I have seen. To be competitive in this class it is really not practical to stick to the ideal of what an ELB is all about. For instance this bow mentioned was 60" long, stiff center. I would imagine that a 100# bow built about 64" long could do quite well also but would it be sticking with the tradition of english long bows?

  One thing I do like about the primitive classes vs the modern classes is that we don't specify the style of bow so we can build whatever we feel will work best and not feel like we are violating some traditional style code. The modern longbows  are another class that I am not crazy about. American longbows are not designed to shoot 3 and 4 grains per pound, they are hunting bows being used in flight. I would put a 6 grain per pound minimum on them to encourage sticking with the traditional style.

[WillS]

I'm reading this quickly so forgive me if I've missed something Del, but are you not describing the Welsh Class flight shoot? 

Any single-stave bow wood allowed provided it's indigenous to the UK (so English/Welsh yew and all other woods such as Hazel, elm, ash etc competing together) and must fall between 95lbs and 110lbs so that the skill in achieving the best distance is down to the archer, not a heavier bow than everybody else.

Arrows are to be made to a certain spec, but I guess that's the case with any flight shoot so as to minimise variables. 

There are way more details on the bows/arrows/strings on the Welsh Class page, but is that something similar to what you're after, or were you hoping for something more open, to allow for recurving etc?

[PatM]

The problem I see Del is if you want to compete with the Warbows then you'll have to comply with the rules over there and my understanding is that they are a bit "tight around the collar"

Hi, yes, but there are more than one society shooting "warbow/longbow"
The ILAA has an excellent, very well documented and quite loose longbow definition, allowing as much deflex/reflex as you wish on the grounds that the wood will limit itself. Each clause of the definition has the reasoning behind it explained which is very refreshing.
Just in case anyone is interested here it is.
http://www.longbow-archers-association.org/definitionlongbow.html
Del

That article seems to have an odd definition of recurving.
 The use of "ascetically" is a bit puzzling. I do not think that word means what the author thinks it does. 

[Del the cat]

Just checked the EWBS, they bang on about a warbow must be like the Mary Rose bows but then say they must not have any induced reflex... err, but quite a few MR bows have substantial reflex... mind we can't be certain what they looked like originally.
I think there is often confusion between reflex and recurve... dunno if there is really a good agreed definition... not to mention backset.
From what I recall the ILAA spec says any reflex (recurve) must be over half the length of the limb or more . E.G no flipped tips ... or at least that's how I read it.
It's pretty obvious that most of the people writing these definitions have never read or written a military specification
Del

[WillS]

My limited understanding of the ewbs specs is that they're just trying to eliminate obviously flipped tips.  They say heat is allowed if it's used to straighten a bow, but there's obviously a very large grey area between straightening and altering the shape for your benefit.

If you're hoping to use a 100# bow built purely for distance (flipped tips, reflex/recurve etc) then I guess it wouldn't be much like a military bow, and you might need to find a specific place to use it.  Sounds fun though, I'd love to see what super heavy bows can do with a whole heap of tip flipping.

[Del the cat]

My limited understanding of the ewbs specs is that they're just trying to eliminate obviously flipped tips.  They say heat is allowed if it's used to straighten a bow, but there's obviously a very large grey area between straightening and altering the shape for your benefit.

If you're hoping to use a 100# bow built purely for distance (flipped tips, reflex/recurve etc) then I guess it wouldn't be much like a military bow, and you might need to find a specific place to use it.  Sounds fun though, I'd love to see what super heavy bows can do with a whole heap of tip flipping.

I'm not thinking flipped tips... and it would look like a warbow. Very much like the 100# elm I mad but with a little deliberate drflex at the grip and then the limbs sweeping in a gentle reflex to finish with about 1" of reflex (e.g tips 1" further away from archer than the back of the grip)
Del

[WillS]

Sounds gorgeous.  Would be a ridiculous shame if governing bodies didn't allow it, but it seems to be the way things are at the moment.

I spose the best option is to make it anyway, and take it along without asking questions and IF you get chucked out, start a brand new society

[Lukasz Nawalny]

I have made last time flight arrow for 50 lb longbow - Ipe looks perfect for me on longbow flight arrows - 29 inch arrow 6,8 mm max diameter, 26 gram static spine 40. I think 7-8 GPP its minimum for " D" section longbows

[Del the cat]

Yeah arrows is a whole new ball game. I've only tried maple and cedar so far
Del

[Buckeye Guy]

Del
at least you have one thing going your way that fiberstuff really does not give an advantage on really long bows as far as performance goes
hope you get in and do well , but that may be what the officials are afraid of that wrote the rules
Have fun

[Del the cat]

Cheers guys...
I think I may just build what I fancy and plough my own furrow. I'm thinking of buying a laser rangefinder with some money I found under the Christmas tree
I'm not too keen on rules and societies. If I can find somewhere safe to sneak out and shoot half a dozen arrows, that may well suit me. Being "official " doesn't actually effect how far the arrow goes!
Anyone got any specific recommendations on rangefinders?
I have a nice square of thin steel plate off the back of an old cooker which will make a nice target for the laser... stand that on the shooting line, walk to arrow, measure back to laser target
Del