Well.... (Questions Added - Page 2...)

[George Tsoukalas]

Arachnid, there's more on my site.



There are 3 types of board cuts which are identified by looking at the butt side. There are plain or flat sawn , 1/4 or edge ringed sawn (||), and rift or bias (//).

With plane and rift look at the face of the board. The grain lines ideally should be straight tip to tip. With these cuts the edge grain should reflect what the face is doing. Those perfect boards are rare. I allow to run outs per limb depending on the target weight I want. That's for a selfbow. I never did a composite bow.

With 1/4 sawn look at the edge grain and it must be straight tip to tip.

Jawge

[Springbuck]

I can see circular saw marks still present on the back.

I'm not seeing what you are seeing, DarkSoul.    Arachnid, is he right?  Because that would be a recipe for failure.

I have heard a lot of confusion about quarter sawn backings in general.  I have had people assert on web forums that all backings have to be QS, and sime people just don't get the concept of radial grain vs growth rings.    No matter the wood, the grain needs to run straight in both directions.

Imagine if the board you wanted to take backings from was a 4x4.  If you went to split it with a big knife, it would split full length, no matter how you oriented the knife.  You could set it across one way, and it would split basically into two 2x4's.  You could turn the knife 90 degrees and it would split basically into two 2x4's.  You could set the wedge corner to corner, and split it into two triangle section halves, or turn it 90 again and do the same thing.  If it won't, it isn't suitable for backings.   So you have to translate that to other board sizes. 

[arachnid]

I have to say that I'm almost glad that bow broke. I thought I knew how to select a board (I have about 8 bows on my rack.... not much but I'm know a thing or two) but I guess there's always stuff to learn.

George- I've read the info in your site about a year ago. Can you explain why you allow 2 runoffs per limb in flat/rift sawn but not in 1/4 sawn?

Springbuck- That good info. I allways looked for 1/4 board for backing and might have overlooked other types.

[George Tsoukalas]

Arachnid,
I've not had good luck with 1/4 sawn so I  prefer the perfect board with no run outs as viewed from the edge grain on that cut. Ring lines can be parallel on the face and still be way off on the edge for 1/4.

I find the others easier to read and the 2 per limb run out max for 50-55# usually yields a not to steep angle of violation which is good.

Jawge

[arachnid]

Thanks George.
There's something I still don't get- I've read in on place that if a flat sawn board has V shapes on the face side and there clustered closely together, that's good. Any explanation?

[Springbuck]

Arachnid, if you read my post above George's about splitting the 4x4, it kind of answers that question.  What George is saying about quarter sawn wood, either boards or backings, is that on the face the ring lines lines can be perfect, (parallel, straight, and run full length), but viewed from the skinny edge, the radial grain can be doing whatever the heck it wants, and you probably won't be able to tell.   You often get pretty sharp run-offs back to front that way.

 I've even had BELLY slats of QS osage, bulletwood, or goncalo alves fail because the grain ran back to front at really high angles, and I couldn't see it.  A backing, just like a board-stave, can be any growth ring orientation, but the grain has to run straight on the face no matter what.

So, if you mean that on a flat sawn board there are lots of V's close together, with their points running out, then no, that isn't good.  That means the board was flat sawn at an angle, or from a curved, tapered, or lopsided log.

[bow101]

I broke my share mostly because of haste.  Nothing ventured nothing gained just keep plugging away it will come to you.  And sometimes it is the woods fault so don't sweat it.

[George Tsoukalas]

I agree with Springbuck. I'm thinking that when the v's are present toward one end that's caused by the taper of the tree itself?
What do you all think?
Jawge

[mikekeswick]

As I said above v's indicate cut through fibers.

You can get into the technicalities of choosing boards but to begin with but just keep repeating to yourself 'straight lines on all four sides'.....repat this over and over again until it sinks in. DO NOT buy anything else unless you like heartbreak! I used to think oh I can get away with this...bows can make it past tillering and blow down the line because there were cut through fibers....now that really is a pain in the ....

[arachnid]

As I said above v's indicate cut through fibers.

You can get into the technicalities of choosing boards but to begin with but just keep repeating to yourself 'straight lines on all four sides'.....repat this over and over again until it sinks in. DO NOT buy anything else unless you like heartbreak! I used to think oh I can get away with this...bows can make it past tillering and blow down the line because there were cut through fibers....now that really is a pain in the ....

I too had times I thought I can get away with less-then-perfect grain. I guess it happens to everyone...

[George Tsoukalas]

Time Baker in TBB2 P 40 agrees Mike. Jawge

[arachnid]

Thanks a lot for the info guys.
I was wondering, does adding a backing (like rawhide or brown paper)
helps for so-so grain boards? Can it help a board with grain runoffs in the sides? on the back?

Also, if I get a flat sawn board with ring violations on the back (mostly white oak), is chasing a ring on the back (and re-establishing the back ring) does anything? Can I chase a ring and go on to build a board bow without backing?

I`ve been looking for perfect boards for some time now with no luck...

[bushboy]

I know finding a good board is not easy!hickory is darn tough stuff and I have made descent bows out of it with less than perfect grain.from what I've seen you have to see the bow in the bow,less than perfect grain in the stiff handle area and the tips can be doable.i ment bow in the board!lol!

[bradsmith2010]

yes the rawhide will help
dont strain the bow to much when on long string or tiller tree
make a lighter poundage bow(and wider) if the grain is iffy
main thing keep trying
where do you live,, maybe someone could send you a board, you said where you live I missed it

[arachnid]

I live in Israel. I get most of my bow wood from carpenters and lumber yards around me. Problem is, as I said, for some time I wasn't able to find any perfect boards.

How about ring chasing a flat sawn board? I don't mind the extra work if it's worth it...

BTW, is 40-45# considered a light weight bow?