Shaft Materials: Youpon and "River Cane":

[Comancheria]

Surrounded as I am by high SD white wood, and gravel roads covered with chert and/or flint, having (hopefully) locked in all the tendons my dog and I can chew on, and having set my semi-literate relatives on a quest for Osage, I have now turned my scrounging attention to the quest for suitable material for arrow shafts.

First question is Youpon Holly, (Ilex vomitaria), variously spelled Yupon.  It is a huge woody weed in this area.  In dense shade, you can find some pretty straight stalks, albeit with many branches.  Anybody used it for arrow shafts? 

Next, I remembered a road nearby with cane all over the bar ditches, easily available along the right-of-way.  I hoped against hope that it would turn out to be native River Cane (Arundimaria gigantea) with the side stalks having 6-8 leaves.  After much research and discussion with our County Extension agent, I now believe it to be what is locally called "Giant Cane" or Arundo Donax--an invasive Asian species, 10-12 feet tall and segmented very much like the AG plants, but with individual leaves coming right off the stalk.  Seems to be fairly stiff, even though green, and up to 1/2 inch or more thick.  Again, curious whether anyone has experience with the stuff.  I am willing to take an uneducated guess that much of what is called River Cane today may be this very similar physically (but very different biologically) plant that no Indian (American, that is) ever saw.

Oh, and I lied--about my dog and I chewing on the deer tendons.  I don't have a dog.

Best regards,

Russ

[TimBo]

I would guess you will need to move this to the Arrows section.  Sorry I don't know about youpon; arundo donax is used for saxophone and oboe reeds.  I might trade you for some in the future...right now making bow stuff is enough though!

[Comancheria]

Oops.  My apologies.  I will
Alert the Admin to move this.

Thanks,

Russ

[Thunder]

Hey Russ,
  I've used Yaupon Holly for arrow shafts, and I think they're great. I've also used them as foreshafts with Phragmite, Tonkin and River Cane arrows and with Atlalt darts. In my experience with Yaupon it is very durable and a little on the heavy side. Yaupon does have to be straightened slowly while green though, once they're seasoned they don't straighten easily. But they have stayed straight for me. I'll post some photos soon, I (my phone) lost most of my pics. I say give them a try.

[GlisGlis]

Arundo donax is good as arrow shaft.
You have to use 2° year stems that are stronger. They tend to be more stiff and more brown in color.
I leave the part of the leaf that make a sheath around the shaft for the some week while drying than i scrape it out.
Seems to procure a better seasoning

[Comancheria]

Thanks, Gentlemen.  Thunder, I will be on the lookout for some straight shafts. 

Meanwhile, I also have to say that I refined my search criteria (typed in "arundo Donax" plus "arrows"---Duhhh) and found a wealth of varying opinions--mostly right on this forum. Some think as you, GlisGlis, that AD is good and I found one additional reference to cutting cane greater than one year old.  There was also some feeling that it is inferior to Phragmites or AG--the native cane.  Specifically, this feeling was that it was weaker and that to get adequate spine, you have to cut thicker stalks--too thick for arrows (which I have heard it said should be tapered only between 5/16 and 3/8 inch. 

One thing is certain: I have enough stalks nearby--say ten or twenty trillion--to keep me busy experimenting.  I intend to lay in a thousand or so for seasoning and get started with actually making a BOW!

Best regards,

Russ

[JackCrafty]

In the areas where Yaupon Holly (Ilex vomitoria) grows you will find Giant Cane, as your friend has told you.  I'm not certain it's invasive, though.  I think it's native.  And river can is an entirely different plant.  Rivercane is actually one of two (maybe three) native bamboo species in the US.  Anyways, I've used both for arrow shafts so I'll tell you what my experiences have been.

Yaupon holly works great.  It's very light in color and make striking shafts that sand easily and paint well.  They seem to stay straight under most conditions but I've had them remember their original shape after very hot and humid days.  They are easily re-straightened, though.  It doesn't burnish as nice as Osier dogwood but it looks very similar.  It's also slightly heavier than Osier so the shafts will be more slender...  so if you're looking for a substitute for Osier, you might try cottonwood or something lighter than Yaupon.

Giant cane seems to be very weak no matter how many years old it is.  Each patch of cane is slightly different so you might find a patch with thick stalks.  Keep track of that spot or harvest all of it if you think it will be cut down by city mowers.  You might not get another chance to find a good supply of thick-stalked giant cane.

We have phragmites reed out here in west Texas but I think the elevation has a lot to do with it's preference for this area (2800 feet).  The stalks of phragmites are very thick and although it looks almost exactly like giant cane, they are very different when it comes to making arrows.  Giant cane needs to be reenforced as the nock: a hardwood insert that has a nock cut into it works well.  Forseshafts are definitely a must.

The Indians used giant can for weaving baskets and as covering for their wikiups.  I may make a nice quiver.

[Comancheria]

Patrick,

It's really confused.  The biologist down here on the coast tells me that there were/are two native species: Arundaria Gigantica--which he refers to as the "true" River cane, used by the Carancua and others--and the Switch Cane.  He swears up and down that the AD stuff originated in India and that it does not spread by seeds, but all plants are a single clone--all over the world--spreading strictly through root stock.  I don't know.

I will say that I have only played with about a dozen of the green plants and my initial impression is not to be as excited as I was when I first found the stands.  It seems to be as you say.  As I have said, it is up to a half inch thick near the base.  It falls between 5/16 and 3/8 inch diameter near the center of most stalks, which is right at the diameter of the big Easton 2512 shafts I used in my Mathews Solo Cam before being converted to the true faith.😊. That having been said, at that diameter, they are getting pretty flexible and weak feeling--if you go up the taper much farther.  Hopefully, seasoning will stiffen them, but I am not too optimistic.

One thing I read suggested that where the AD grows with plenty of water, it tends to be inferior--and stronger, where it is drier.

Good news on the Youpon.  My nose will be to the ground this week.

Russ

[Webradbury]

There is an abundance of arundinaria tecta in my area. I have cut a lot of it and have noticed that it does grow thicker and stronger on dryer ground.

[Thunder]

These are the Yaupon shafts I have been working on.
URL=http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/thundersdad/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141127_221015_zpsb812cqyz.jpg.html][/URL]URL=http://s1248.photobucket.com/user/thundersdad/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20141127_221154_zpslkeabale.jpg.html][/URL]

[Comancheria]

All I can say is Wow, Thunder.  Nice shafts.  I'm
stoked, as the younguns say, about Youpon.

[JackCrafty]

After looking in many different states for cane and reed, this is what I know:

Arundo donax, (Giant Cane), grows all over Texas at elevations below 2000 feet.  I have found giant cane in Austin, San Antonio, Edinburg, McAllen, Houston, etc.  Giant cane is not to be confused with Arundinaria gigantea which is what we commnly call "rivercane" here on the forum.  Arundinaria is a bamboo.  Hill cane and switch cane are the other two types that are native to the US but I won't post their scientific names here.  I have NOT seen these bamboo plants anywhere in Texas.  Not even in east Texas (although I have it on good authority that it grows in Louisiana and on the border with Texas).

Above 2000 feet and west and north of San Angelo Texas, you tend to find Phragmites australis subsp. americanus , (Phragmites reed).  This is a native species of phragmites and it seems that it is all the same species wherever it is found in the West.

Now, there are LOTS of other invasive species or reeds, canes, and bamboos but they are not any of the ones I mentioned above.

[Knoll]

All I can say is Wow, Thunder.  Nice shafts.  I'm
stoked, as the younguns say, about Youpon.

Agreed, nice.  I'm a sucker for a good set of nocks.

[Comancheria]

Thanks for the info, Patrick.  The Ag agent told me that in my area, the True Giant Cane is rare nowadays.  Has that been your experience in the areas of Texas where you have seen it?

[GlisGlis]

Hey thunder
great shafts there!
...regarding that scary points i have to warn you that tyrannosaurus rex is by now extinct