Help with ELB build?

[HoorayHorace]

Morning all. I have a laminate bow stave made up from a combination of hickory, purpleheart and lemonwood, and I'm looking for an English Longbow at around 55lbs at 28. First off, this is my second bow; the first was a simple American ash longbow which broke after around 500 shots. I bought the stave in kit form, and while it is very nice, I am stuck on the belly taper. The stave has a built in reflex to help fight against set, and dus to this i cant get my belly dimensions or facet/bevel lines. Cant put a ruler on something with such a curve, as i did with the width dimensions. Belly dimensions will be 3/4 down to half inch, i just needed a straight stave to plot them. The kit with a dvd, though it is notthat helpful. Sorry for spelling/grammar mistakes in advance, as i am on my phone. Thanks

[Del the cat]

A couple of ways round the problem.
1. Draw out the taper with straight lines on a piece of paper, floor, wall etc as a template. Measuer the thicness or width off the template at say 6" intervals and then transfer these onto the stave.
2. Clamp the stave to a straight bit of 2x2 and the you can mark directly on to it.
3. Don't over think it, just taper it by measuring every 6" and aim for about 1.5 - 2mm thickness change every 6". If it's right every 6" you can then blend in between each point.
Measurement is fine but try to get used to eye and feel, because that's what you'll need when you eventually pick up a wobbly stave to use.

Remember wood is a natural material and you can't simply build a bow by numbers.
I recently was asked to finish a Hickory backed Yew bow made by a cabinet maker who had since died. It was beautifully made but had never been on a tiller. It looked like a bow but was no where near right.
See this post on my blog.
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/hickory-backed-yew.html
It's all about using your eye, learning to see a good curve and spotting problems before they are obvious (it's too late then!)
I'm currently doing a boo backed Yew and it's about to go on the tiller, that's when the real work starts... keep an ey on my blog to see how it goes. It may be helpful to you.
Del

[HoorayHorace]

Thank you, Del. They are some great ideas.

One quick question regarding the belly; which is the best way to achieve the rounded D section? Should I create a bevel and turn it to a D section, or just round it by eye alone? I understand that when tillering a longbow, there should be no facets in the belly, and the belly should be a full D section before tiller?

I'm also unsure whether I should go for a full compass tiller, or add the 'Buchanan dip' and leave it stiff.

[Del the cat]

Make it rectangular section initially, leaving the tips a little wide (they can be narrowed later).
Once it is flexing to about brace then take off the corners of the belly. The nas you progress it can be rounded a bit more.
Don't get hung up on having a perfect semicircular or high arched D IMO it's a bit of a myth and only really found on some Victorian bows. Warbows are more like an inflated square or circle with a slight flat at the back. Just keep taking off any corners an it will automatically end up right... just do it by eye using plane, rasp, scraper as appropriate.
It's all about feel.
I feel a fraud... having said you can't build a bow by numbers, the Boo backed Yew I've done is pretty even first time on the tiller... the centre is flexing, the outers need to bend more and that has happened as I've narrowed the tips.
Just remember spend more time looking, feeling and thinking than removing wood, and most of all have fun.
Del

[HoorayHorace]

Finding it very frustrating right now  I feel that to learn this bow making craft/art, you need someone to actually 'show you how' in person. Any good courses out there with expert bowyers?
 

Hoping the fun starts soon though.....

[bubby]

Finding it very frustrating right now  I feel that to learn this bow making craft/art, you need someone to actually 'show you how' in person. Any good courses out there with expert bowyers?
 

While that would be a perfect scenario it's not necessary, I've built a lot of bows and never met another bowyer in person let alone build with one, just hang in there and listen to good builders like del and all of a sudden it will click

[HoorayHorace]

I appreciate Del taking the time to write me, otherwise I would be lost, especially due to me lacking a good deal of common sense in these things 

I dread to think of making a true self bow with all those knots and grain run offs ect.

[bradsmith2010]

once you realize you dont have to measure a self bow,, you will  have more fun,,, taking off wood evenly to get an even bend is hard,, but not that hard,, just takes some practice and your eye gets better and better,,,

[mikekeswick]

Yes clamp it to a straight piece of something! I use a 2x2 steel box section 7 foot long.
Then mark your thickness taper with a straight edge.
You should leave your bow 1 inch thick at the handle. Measure out 1 inch from the handle before starting your taper. 3/4 is too thin for sure for a 55lb'er. Especially with lemonwood.
Leave the stave rectangular to begin with as Del says but I add the facets along the belly edges straight away.
Above all with these bow is to make dead certain your layout is dead nuts straight and your wood removal is even or else they can start bending sideways.
Rounding the belly should only be done once you have it braced and pulling your intended draw weight at about 22 -24 inches.
Use tillering gizmo to get you an elliptical tiller. Don't listen to people when they say ELB's should be circular tiller. An elb has a lot of thickness taper. As wood gets thinner it can bend further.
Anyway good luck.

[HoorayHorace]

It is one tough job with hand tools...I can say that right now. If only I had a band saw!

I have already started the belly taper and have made it 3/4, so a mistake there already. Being honest though I would be happy just to get a bow out of this, regardless of end draw weight.

I do need a bandsaw for this type of job though