Tiller-along?

[Knoll]

I enjoy reading and have learned much through the bow build-alongs many experienced bowyers have contributed to the traditional/primitive archery community.  Sometimes ya learn many things from such a posting.  Often it'll be a small detail ... such as using a small drilled hole and a toothpick through 2 pcs of wood to keep wood pieces from "squiggling around" during clamping of a glueup.  Always learn something from these posts.

But, the details of the tillering methods/considerations/strategies seem to me to receive cursory attention.  Have a hunch because it's a challenge to describe/detail in writing & pictures.  But, for those of us noobs who are a bit beyond the basics of building a bow, some "tiller-alongs" would seem to be good way for us to learn more of this black art ... and maybe the more experienced will take away a new thought or two also.

Whatcha think?

[WillS]

I think the theory is good - I know I would have found something like this immensely useful when I was getting started, but it does pose a problem I think.

Once you get the hang of tillering, the majority of what you're doing is naturally and reflexively spotting areas that might be problematic.  What I mean is, when you're a beginner the usual method is to pull the bow and stare at it until a very clear hinge or stiff spot appears, at which point (ideally) you rectify the problem and continue.  This ends up making fairly poor bows, for various reasons.  As you get more experienced, those areas become "potential" areas - you can start to predict how a hinge is going to appear before it does, or you can start to see areas that will end up being too stiff and so on.  A lot of this is incredibly hard to photograph and describe without the person standing next to you. 

Also, a large amount of spotting problem areas happens as the limbs move - it's the physical movement and watching them come round that gives away the slight problems.  To accurately document these would mean filming the entire process while talking over it, or taking lots of still shots of the film and writing it all up after the fact.  Hard work!  Not impossible, however.

What would probably end up happening is a set of photos that show obvious hinges and stiff spots or twist or whatever, with arrows pointing to them and captions such as "hinge" or "stiff spot" as that's all a photograph can really show.  You can find this stuff all over the forum (and it's incredibly helpful as well!) but wouldn't be anything new, per se.

What might actually be going through the bowyer's mind may well be far more complicated and natural, but I think getting that into a readable format might be challenging.

Personally I'd love to see it work, and if I'm being overly negative I'd love to be proven wrong as I think in theory it would be really helpful, but part of me thinks that the next stage of tillering is more about actually doing it and watching the bow move, than reading how somebody else tackles a different bow.  Just my thoughts!

[Del the cat]

Yes it's a good idea, that's why I've done it repeatedly on my blog*...
Going from a wobbly first try on the tiller to a finished bow...
It's all there for those who are willing to look.
Del
*Bowyers Diary

[huisme]

A few of the guys on /r/bowyer want to put together exhaustive albums and videos of our processes with different woods, my contribution being black locust, but I'm not sure when any of us will have that put together. I figure if they don't I could post links here or the how-to section.

[Blaflair2]

I just look at a lot of braced and unbraced photos. Then when u see it bend evenly it makes sense. It's just a lot of scraping and checking

[mikekeswick]

It's just practise. My advice is simple - make lots of bows. It's the failures that teach you and yes whilst a mentor could be helpful I never had a single person help me. I have a large pile of 'experimental' bows.....they tell many stories 
I've also taught (or tried!) a few people how to make bows and I think it's largely a bit of a waste of time. I can't teach their eyes to see what they need to see and I can't teach them the feel you need to tiller a fast bow. Theory yes no problem but it's really all in the doing.

[Del the cat]

+1
Perfectly put.
All the pics in the world won't help if you can't see the subtleties.
I'd only add that pulling on a rope and watching the bow flex does help you to see where it's bending better than a couple of still pics.
That's why I generally take video, and then sit and watch it. I can't get back very far from the bow in my garage.
That brings another point, make a decent tiller rig, as with most things, time spent in peparation is well spent.
Del

[SLIMBOB]

Yep.  Agree with that.  When I was a "younker" working on these bows, I could not spot what shape I was aiming for and so, rarely achieved it.  I could show it to other more experienced guys and they would make comments about hinges and flat spots and whip ends, I couldn't see it.  When I could see them, it was too late in the game to fix it without coming in far under weight.  Taking meat off the limbs was easy, taking meat off in the right spots early in the build was the trick.  Only after building lots of bows could I picture in my mind the shape I was after, and then replicate that shape from blank to bow, by scraping in the proper spots, from the beginning.  I too, like Mike, have helped a number of guys learn this craft over the years.  Only a couple of those guys can make a hunting weight bow today and those are the guys that just stuck with it long enough to figure it out.  Most of that through trial and error.  Like the idea of a "tiller along", I'm just not sure you could do more than explain the obvious.  All the rest is a matter of knowing what your after and finessing your way there through all the subtleties.  Only experience will get you to that point I believe.   

[Del the cat]

I've just posted 2 videos on my blog. One first try on long dtring, second after some work...
Spot the differece!
http://bowyersdiary.blogspot.co.uk/2014/11/tiller-progress-videos.html
Del

[Knoll]

Appears outer 2/5's flexing much more.

[DC]

Right hand limb a little stiff on the inner third? Maybe?

[DC]

I noticed that you don't have the bow level on the tree. Deliberate? Doesn't matter?

[Del the cat]

I noticed that you don't have the bow level on the tree. Deliberate? Doesn't matter?

When you first take up tension on a bow sting it doesn't pull back square. I set the bow up on the tree to mimic how it is drawn in the hand. EG the pull is just above the point of support.
BTW, It's not finished yet, I'm just showing it as an illustration of how the tiller progresses, and how video helps.
Del