First time Osage self-bow, lots of knots!

[Academonicon]

Hey folks!  I've finally gotten around to having a bit of time to work on my first Osage self-bow with the lumber I got off my aunt and uncle's farm in Indiana.  The best stave I've got is still going to be a tricky one, though, and I could use some advice.

Here's the stave as of yesterday:



As you can see, it's got a big knot near the bottom and some twist throughout.  I can work out the twist with some heat-treatments (at least I'm hoping I can), but I'm worried about the knot (and the other smaller knots and pins.  I've seen a lot of character bows where the knots have been punched or drilled out to create holes in the bow instead.  Is this the right way to go?  If so, should I be charring the inside of the hole to strengthen it or something like that?  I've only worked with oak, hickory, and maple board-bows in the past, so this is a whole new experience and experiment for me.

Any and all advice is appreciated.

[mikekeswick]

First thing is to get a ring chased then you will be able to see the knot and it's shape a lot better.
Once you have the ring chased then mark out the width profile being very careful to follow the grain around the knot. You will see that the grain upto and around the knot will act like water in a stream when it hits a rock...it just follows around the sides of it. As long as you follow the grain the knot will be fine.
Then once the stave is reduced to width you can remove wood from the thickness. As you do this and get to floor tiller you will again get a much better picture as to how to deal with the knot. You generally get two types of knot solid ones and not solid ones! The solid ones can be soaked with very thin superglue and the not solid ones can be 'dug out' and then either left or filled with fine sawdust and thin superglue to make a sort of plug.
Get to this point and then post some pictures.

[blackhawk]

Good advice from mike....get a ring chased and come back with pics....that don't look to bad actually,and should be very manageable for a novice.

[Academonicon]

Here are a little better pictures of the big knot.  It's not quite a single ring on the back, but it's very close, so there's a view from the back, and then another after sanding it down flat on the belly.  Thoughts about leaving it in or taking it out?  If I should take it out, some advice on how that works would be helpful.  My biggest concern with it is that if it's left in, it's heavy and is going to slow down the shot significantly.

[Stringman]

If the knot doesn't fall out on its own, the you won't be wanting to try to get it out. Looks pretty solid, so I would just leave it for now. Couple questions:
Are you down past the sap wood? (Can we see a shot of the end grain?)
Is this stave dry/have you sealed the back?
Give us some dimensions- might help us give better advise along the way.

[bradsmith2010]

how long is the stave,, sorry if I missed that

[Academonicon]

The stave is 61.5".  The knot sits about 12 inches from the end of the upper limb.  I'm currently planning it to have a static handle, though I'm not locked into that yet, still making up my mind.  And yep, I have gotten through the sapwood and the first couple thin layers of heartwood - the ring the back is made from is the first layer of thick heartwood.  The wood is dry, and the back hasn't been sealed.  I probably would have dug down to the next layer, but the stave was an eighth of a limb to begin with and I'm worried that taking it down another ring would make the sides of the bow too narrow.

[Pat B]

Do get the newly exposed back resealed. I've had a few well seasoned osage staves check when I exposed a new back ring and not sealed it. I keep a spray can of shellac on my work bench all the time for that reason.

[mikekeswick]

Finish chasing the ring around the knot then lay out your width profile.
Reduce to width then start attacking the thickness. Once the thickness is somewhere near you will get a much better picture what is going on.
Pat is dead right about 'dry' osage and new backs checking.

[blackhawk]

I'd leave the knot alone for now as well...seal that back,and shoot some super glue in that knot. What's your intended draw length and weight with it?

[bradsmith2010]

i have had the same with "dry" osage,, good to seal the back and be safe

[bowmo]

It's close enough to the end that I personally would just lay the bow out around it. Its so big the whole limb width would be knot at that spot if you lay it out through it. That or you would have a big swollen spot out near the tip if you go around it.

[Academonicon]

RE bowmo: unfortunately the knot is too close to the edges of the stave, I can't go around one side of it.  I'm stuck with the lump.

RE blackhawk: I'm planning for it to pull about 45lb at 28", or at least that's the ideal.

RE others: Looks like I'd better buy some shellac and seal the back.  Does it matter that I've been working on the bow for a week or so?  Not sure if there's a threshold where it stops mattering whether the back is sealed or not as long as checks haven't appeared yet.

[bowmo]

Well, depends on how you design your limbs. I make my osage bows quite narrow. 12" from the tip my bows are less than 1" wide. But, I feel ya. If you prefer wider limbs it would be an issue.

[blackhawk]

Then I'd make it at least bend some in the handle...n if ya need n like more meat to the handle you can build it up with cork etc...