holmegaard, questions of proportion

[Eric Kol]

Hello, I am no where near being able to tiller a holmegaard bow, but really like the look and descriptions of its performance. I have done a search of this site for old threads and am so impressed not only by the level of discussion and the sharing of knowledge, but also by the respectful debate and varying oppinions.
Now...... I have a general grasp of the length proportions, having the outer portion being no longer than 12" or roughly 1:3.
Sounds like width of bending section should be about 2" width..

What about the handel?
1 Does this style bend though the handle much (or should it)?

2 What is an optimal handle length?

3 in terms of outer/non bending limbs, what is a general width for this and what is it dependant on?

   it looks like they can get quite narrow at the nocks, but I have also read that they are to be the same width throught the limbs length?

4 So how is the best way in your opinion to handel the transition from the fades (spread out over how far) and then the taper from limb to nock width?

and if I have not asked to many questions already.. the outer non bending limbs are considerably thicker than the bending section, and I understand that this is one of the awesome aspects of this bow for cast and performance.

5 How do you determine this thickness? is it a proportion of the thickness for the working limb or asthetic (as long as it does not bend). This would seem fickle to me and that you would not know how much wood to remove untill you have removed too much.

6 In your opinion what are the length ranges for this bow and woods that make it shine!

thanks for any insight. Eric

[adb]

Hi, Eric
Holmies are my passion. They are truly amazing primitive weapons. To help answer your questions:

1. The handle does not bend. I make my handles 4" in length.

2. For the outer, non-bending limbs, I taper from the distal fades to very narrow nocks. I make the taper even. The smaller the tips, the more advantage. Some bowyers even add external tip nocks, with needle point tips.  I personally use pin nocks, and make them narrow, but thick.

3. I make the fades, at the handle and the distal tapers, over 2".

4. For the bending limbs, width depends on wood. I've made Holmies out of maple, hickory, osage, and elm. For the white woods, I make the inner limbs 2" to 2.5". For osage, I've made them as narrow as 1.5". I've made self Holmies, and backed Holmies. Hickory backed osage, rawhide backed maple, hickory backed maple.

5. Make the outer, non-bending limbs thicker. How thick? Enough so they don't bend! Trial and error here. Thicker = heavier. I also taper the outer limbs in profile to the nock. The proportions must also be pleasing to the eye.

6. These bows shine at a bit shorter lenghts. Because of the non-bending outer limbs, the string angle is reduced, also reducing finger pinch... a problem with traditionally tillered shorter bows. That being said, I haven't made any Holmies less than 64" in total length. If too short, you don't have enough working limb length.

7. Remember... tiller a Holmie by looking at the inner limbs only. Get the inner limbs bending in as circular a fashion as possible, to spraed the stess over the entire inner limb. The outer limbs should not bend! Regardless of total lenght,  I never make the outer non-bending limbs more than 12". For shorter Holmies, I usually go with 10".

8. A hint for tillering Holmies (and all bows, for that matter)... wood which is twice as wide is twice as strong, but wood which is twice as thick is 8 times stronger. So, you can make the outer, non-bending limbs fairly thin, without them bending.

Some pics:







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[Badger]

Beautiful bow adb and good advice also, nothing to add here except in some cases of a shorter holmgarde you may want a slight handle flex even though the handle has been narrowed. You may need it to get the bow out to full draw without overstressing the limbs. That being said I try to keep my handles rigid whenever I can. I just finished an osage holmgarde yesterday, 55#@28" I love the way they shoot. I usually cut a non paleo arrow shelf into my bows and fade out the transition area a little less abruptly but thats just me. If I make them under 60" I will sometimes allow a slight handle flex. Steve

[medicinewheel]

adb! - i sure would LOVE to see tip details and transition details (bending to non-bending limbportion) of thisone....aaaaaaaaand full draw pics of this beautiful bow wouldn't hurt either!!!

frank

[DanaM]

adb I think you just volunteered to do a holmegaard build along
It would be a great addition to the build along section.
Beautiful bows ya have there.

[jkekoni]

I think it is better to have smooth transition from bending to non bending in HG bow. I think non smooth transition will
introduce extra mass in the spot otherwise. I also suggest slight taper in the width during the bending part.

I think you should tiller the bending part 1st. When it is ready then tiller the non bending part ontil it bends only a little (1-2cm or so).

Handle should be made big Enough for hand. There may be advantage for big non bending handle, but the bow must be made longer.

There is also altenate way for making the end limbs lighter. Whether or not this is still holmgard (Or JooniGard?) is of course debatable.

This one is not compatible with smooth transition. The ends are sawn straigth and bend+glued together.

[medicinewheel]

JooniGard huh!?! hey that sure looks COOOOOOOOOL! that a shootable bow?? well than... unstrung, strung, full draw??? 

frank

[Easternarcher]

I gotta make me one of those!
ADB, that is a real beauty you have there.

I haven't paid much attention to HG design before, but now that I see clear pics, I'm puzzled by the short working limb. Where does the performance you guys  rave about with only approx. half the limb working?

Just trying to understand before tackling one of these.....

[adb]

Hi,
Thanks everyone. I'd love to send full draw pics of the hickory backed maple Holmegaard, but it has long since been placed in the hands of its owner.
I think maybe a Holmie build along might be a good idea. I'll keep you posted. I've just had someone express interest in a hickory backed osage Holmegaard, so if it comes to pass, I'll post it.
The advantage of a Holmegaard: light tips, the outer non-bending limbs act as levers, and they also reduce string angle (kind of like a static recurve). Holmies draw very smooth, and seem much lighter in draw weight than a normally tillered bow.
jkekoni, I've never seen anything like that! Looks very interesting!

[woodenwonder]

adb, great post, just what the doctor ordered. My next bow is going to be a Holmegaard. I'm just waiting for my pignut hickort stave to finish drying.

Jkekoni; I've been watching you experiment with that split limb. Does it work? What would you do different next time? Have you thought about not an open back, but a "pi" sign shape" I think you can get those split limbs much thinner. Basic phyics, at twice the distance from the load, a lever only needs to be have as thick. Also, I think, looking at your photo, the working limb part is to short.

[Dane]

Adb, I'd really like to see you do a homie build-along as well. I have a really nice elm stave that has been in my shop since last May, and I want to give it another try. The last two I tried failed, and a third is in the corner of shame. I'm a bit gun shy about this design, but they look so cool, and the performance I've read about here and elsewhere seems very attractive.

Dane

[Easternarcher]

Wonder if hick backed yellow birch would work with the holmegard wider limbs?

[Easternarcher]

Anybody got full draw pics of a Holmegard bow?
I'd like to see how the limbs work...

[Dane]

Eastern, I dont have any time right now, but do a search and you will come up with some Holmies from this site. One I really liked was crafted by a guy in Spain (name slips my mind, but he does beautiful work). He has some full draw shots of that style of bow he buillt a year or two ago.

Dane

[PK]

Found this On another Forum

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