A theory

[Kegan]

Let me know what you think:

 Heavy tips would be a good thing on longbows shooting way heavy arrows- they have more momentum, and more possible energy to transfer to the arrow. Only think it would work with arrows heavy enough to use up the momentum though. Lighter tips work well on lighter arrows,which i perfect for modern archers. If one wanted to shoot rediculously heavy arrows (for aliens or elephant or what not), thicker tips would contain more possible momentum to be transfered into the heavy arrow. Or would this be a reverse affect and the tips steal all the energy? I don't have any arrows weighing enough to test it or a bow with the proper dimesions. I'm thinking something like 3/4"-1" wide. It'd have to be a heavy bow though.

[BigWapiti]

The stuff I've been reading in the Bible Vol I discusses how heavier tips steal the umph.  I recall a scenario mentioned where the author was contemplating a similar theory only to have the math prove him wrong, maybe not very similar to your thought though - but close.  If I find the passage, I"ll post the page.   I see your line of thinking though.
-Mike

[Kegan]

Bow making seems easy. This bow theory stuff is hard .

[Eric Garza]

Heavier tips always steal more momentum from the arrow than lighter tips.  The limbs need to use up more of their internally stored energy to throw the heavier tips forward, leaving less to throw the arrow forward once the string hits home. 

-Eric

[Rich Saffold]

It takes more energy to get the bigger tips moving in the first place and this more than offsets any potential gain which really wouldn't be there since the tips basically hold the string and aren't bending themselves. By getting the tips smaller(as opposed to larger) you are allowing more energy to be transfered by the limbs since there is less weight on the tips to get moving.

[Ryan_Gill_HuntPrimitive]

i say, dont sweat the small stuff, when you bring  mathmatical questions into play and weighng arrows.  is it still primitive archery?    bend a stick and if it looks good and feels good, go with it.  your bows are already plenty heavy IMO. so extra umph probably isnt needed.
its hard to say sometimes where to draw the line as far as primitive is concerned, but-to each his own opinion.

as far as your question is concerned, and this is just the way i would see it, i have no math to back it up.  but it seems to me that  heavier tips would slow down the speed of the limbs. more mass is more weight gained and arrow dinamics that is lost. also the heavier tips may caiuse more stress on the inner limbs causing more set, and that too would decrease performance.  but what do i know, im just a primitive archer..lol     i would say, with the thousands of bows that have been build over the modern years, if heavy tips where better for heavy arrows, we would most likley know it and use the info. - Ryan

[Justin Snyder]

I dont think it will cause set at all. The heavy mass in the tips creates more kenetic energy in the tips that stays in the tips.  The first problem is that energy is stolen from the arrow by reducing speed.  The second is that the energy stays in the bow when the limbs stop moving and goes right up your arm and nocks your teeth out.  Can you say strained peas for dinner. Justin

[jpitts]

Man has always looked to improve his lot.....from copper to brass to steel.... from selfbow to composite....necessity will always be the mother of invention.....and usually where theres a will....theres a way.....

[George Tsoukalas]

Really heavy tips will cause excessive hand shock. Cast is more affected by the last 6-8 inches than the tips. Narrowing the last 6 inches,  but not enough to compromise safety, has a huge effect on cast. Jawge

[Auggie]

In theory bumble bees arent supposed to be able to fly,but they dont seem to know about it,so if the bow doesnt know ...... and too much math will take the fun out of  my primitive hobby,so heres the next question in theory,which would hurt more,getting shot with the light weight arra or the heavy one?

[richpierce]

Some of the Eastern Woodlands bows had fairly heavy tips- Seneca designs etc.  Perhaps we are more concerned about cast and speed than they were, and durability with rough use (when the bow becomes a club) may have been a quality they valued.

[adb]

Hi,
Interesting theory, but I believe casting heavy arrows has more to do with tiller shape. If you're throwing light-weight target arrows, you can have more of an elliptical tiller ( ie. whip tillered), with a non-bending handle. To cast very heavy arrows, you need to tiller to a full compass, bend through the handle type bow, with heavy draw weight. I think of it like throwing a baseball vs. throwing a shotput. To throw a light-weight baseball, you can use your wrist to add the snap at the end. If you want to throw a heavy shot, you need to use your whole arm. Regardless, your hand (or the bow's tips) is still the same size. Heavy tips = slow cast and heavy hand shock. The English warbows were tillered to full compass for a reason... they were casting heavy arrows.

[markinengland]

Kegan,
Interesting question.
Imagine you were throwing baseballs. According to your theory you should be able to throw a really heavy ball further it you wore a glove that was really heavy. The extra momentum of your hand should throw it further? I think not. I think you may well find a lot of the momentum stayed in your arm and hurt like hell and the heavy ball would go further if you kept your hand as light and fast as possible.
Is thinking about bow design primitive? In my opinion it is. There are so many different primitive bow types, showing than people have thought hard and found new ways of making efficient hunting weapons all round the world. Those different designs didn't just happen, they were thought about and created through experimentation.
Primitive isn't stupid. Primitive is graet craftsmanship and intelligent thought leading to effective simple self made bows and arows.
JMHO,
Mark

[Kegan]

Thanks guys! I was trying to think about whether the old Cherokee warbows pictured in TBB vol. II. I don't know abiout the mathmatical stuff behind it- just "how the stick bends", at least some of it. Thanks for all the input ! It just seems that flight bows wouldn't be able to shoot heavy arrows. I dunno. Just thinkin'  .

[Pat B]

Kegan, Just because it is simple doesn't mean its easy! (Marc St Louis)  I try to keep it as simple as possible. My pea brain doesn't work well with complicated stuff.     Pat