Author Topic: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?  (Read 7135 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline beartail

  • Member
  • Posts: 162
how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« on: July 04, 2014, 05:17:25 pm »
I read something about lewis and clark where thay captured a indian.he had 100 arrows,and I think some or all ofem had poison on them.ishi made arrows in fives.i wonder how many arrows the average warrior carried or had.

Offline Pat B

  • Administrator
  • Member
  • Posts: 37,633
Re: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2014, 05:38:45 pm »
Like most hunters probably only enough to assure that he could bring game home. As far as war there probably back-up persons that carried extra arrows and other supplies. Just a guess though.   ;)
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline tipi stuff

  • Member
  • Posts: 311
  • Curtis Carter
Re: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2014, 06:03:47 pm »
Interesting question beartail. I'm not sure you will ever get a clear cut answer for this. Do you recall the tribe of the fellow they captured? Keep in mind, there were lots of different tribes from coast to coast. You would have variation within a region and even within a tribal band. Most of my studies are related to Plains Indians. There were no set numbers on any of this, but as a very generalized way to look at it; a guy hunting might carry 20-25, while a guy going to war might carry 40-50. The guy going to war needs arrows for hunting and fighting. Also, quiver size will dictate some of this. To carry 100 arrows will certainly require a pretty good sized quiver. Some of the early (18th and early 19th century) quivers of the Plains, Plateau, and Missouri River areas could probably carry close to 100. The stuff I make is mostly mid-19th century (1860- 1878), and the quivers as a rule would be smaller in diameter. Mine would be packed to the max with 40-50 arrows.
   As for making them, again there are no set rules, but it was common to make them in sets of 10. Curtis

Offline beartail

  • Member
  • Posts: 162
Re: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2014, 07:30:47 pm »
dang I cant remember where I read that!!!im thinking it said eather black foot or crow.i think thay let him go too.im not shure if thay had a conflict or not.i cant find it anywhere.i know its some where in the journels of lewis and clark though.but that isn't where I red it.is it one of the bowyers bibles?i don't know! makes since what yall where saying.it has all sorts of variables!!

Offline red hill

  • Member
  • Posts: 37
Re: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2014, 06:04:39 pm »
I would think it could also be an individual hang up or choice.  Some hunters today carry 3-4 arrows, I always carry 6. That's how many my side quiver holds.  I'd carry more if I could.  (Not a great shot!) ;D

Offline tipi stuff

  • Member
  • Posts: 311
  • Curtis Carter
Re: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2014, 06:29:18 pm »
To some degree that is true red hill. Some guys were well stocked, and some weren't. Some were very industrious, and some were very talented when it came to making arrows. Some guys were a little lazier, or lacking in skill. Just like today, you had all sorts. Going raiding, or into a battle it is always nice to have a lot of ammo. The guys that took the field made a point of picking up arrows after a fight. Spoils of war!     CC

Offline IndianGuy

  • Member
  • Posts: 289
Re: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2014, 11:50:23 pm »
Tipi is right, I hade the privilege of drinking coffee weekly with the last real Comanche bow maker until he passed away. I asked him this very question. He said on average 10 arrows for hunting, 40 for war.
Arrows were a huge trade item as well , currency just like horses. but again it's like today and it's all personal preference, a good plains archer could shoot  average 10 arrows a minute so add it up!
E

Offline Dharma

  • Member
  • Posts: 453
  • Kayenta, AZ
Re: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2014, 12:23:28 am »
It depends on the tribe. Now, when you're talking about some of the Southeastern tribes and the predecessor Moundbuilder cultures, they had something akin to professional armies and could amass at least a hundred warriors for battles with fairly short notice. They would have carried plenty of arrows plus there were probably apprentice warriors, younger men in training, who would have carried the reserve arrows. There was a Cherokee leader who once told a European he could amass a thousand warriors with a flick of his hand. That was probably no idle boast. Southeastern tribes had distinctions with bows, some being for hunting and others for war and, often, this was determined by poundage of the bow, war bows being of heavier poundage. It would make sense that there might be distinctions between arrows as well. If a people wanted to remain sovereign and had hostile neighbors, as nearly every tribe did have, then they would certainly have plenty of ammunition and go into battle prepared to win. Some tribes engaged in almost ritualistic warfare of raids and hit-and-run tactics while some tribes were in wars to garner more land or displace others from land they were sitting on that the wanted. But in any case, if you go into battle and you run out of ammo, you've got a problem. Because the enemy not only has ammo, but they could conceivably shoot yours back at you as well.

A civilization such as Cahokia could not have accomplished what they did without some sort of professional military. This has to go beyond each warrior doing what he feels doing. There would have had to be organization, to include arrowmaking on a much larger scale.

As far as how many arrows were carried, if there was some type of professional military, they would have had standardized equipment on some scale. Such as, going into battle, each warrior needs to have 40 arrows or something like this. More than likely, the answer to the question could be discovered by modern experiments. Find yourself a large quiver and start with 24 arrows, plus a stone-headed war club at your belt. Walk around with that all day and see how mobile you are. Then try adding more until it gets to the point your mobility is restricted. That number will be the maximum load you can carry into battle and remain mobile, able to move quickly to escape flanking manuevers and encirclement, or to exploit holes in the enemy formations. Modern armies do these experiments to determine optimum loads of ammunition soldiers can carry. (That's one reason the U.S. military went to the 5.56mm caliber round, to increase ammo load capabilities.) Nothing really changes under the Sun as far as logistics in warfare, so this experiment would provide a fairly accurate answer. There's no mystique as to the number of arrows since every ancient army had one goal in mind regardless if they're Native Americans, Celts, Romans, or Assyrians. That goal was to win the battles and, ergo, the war, with as few casualties as possible while inflicting the most casualties on the enemy. If you're relying on bowman, that costs arrows and you need to be willing to spend them.
An arrow knows only the life its maker breathes into it...

Offline Buck67

  • Member
  • Posts: 192
Re: how manny arrows did the average brave carry?
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2014, 10:33:10 am »
I have been going through Jim Hamm's excellent book "Encyclopedia of Native American Bows Arrows and Quivers.  He has drawings of approximately 150 arrows from different tribes shown in full scale.  Almost 48% of those arrows are blunts and have no arrowhead.  I built a few blunts from Hickory and found that they sink about as far into a plastic backstop as a steel arrowhead does.

Anyway the point of this is to say that Hunters were probably carrying blunts with one or two arrowhead tipped arrows in case they ran into big game.  While those on the warpath were carrying serious arrows with big arrowheads.  I am fascinated by these arrows and have duplicated a number of them.  The majority of the arrow shafts are hickory or unnamed hard wood.

The "Hunting Arrows" have a spline weight of 40 to 50 pounds.  The "War Arrows" that I have made copying the ones in the book have a spline weight of 90 - 100+.

The War Arrows are big and heavy with the shafts being 3/8" to 1/2" hickory or other hardwood.  If you carried 40 of them your mobility would suffer.  However, if you are on a warpath and carrying a War Bow that pulls 100 pounds then you could probably handle the weight.

So my best guess is that hunting you might carry 10 arrows and for war whatever you felt you could handle.  The English Longbowman carried a bag/quiver with about 25-30 arrows.  My guess is that is about the upper limit to be able to carry handily.