Author Topic: Need input on short Osage bow.  (Read 9925 times)

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Offline autologus

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2014, 10:57:10 am »
You made the right choice in limiting the draw length to 25" and learning to shoot a short bow, the bow is beautiful and should last you a long time, but a word of warning if you start shooting short bows you will become addicted and not want to shoot long bows.   >:D

Grady
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Offline docmann

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2014, 12:18:38 pm »
I can manage that. Where do I send the pieces?

Offline bradsmith2010

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2014, 12:49:19 pm »
the 25 inch draw is the way to go on such a nice piece of wood,, once a bow gets to 25 its has a pretty good power stroke as well and can have great cast,,,, with a little adjustment ,, you can shoot very accurately at hunting range,,,

Offline docmann

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 03:14:44 am »
As requested, the short (51") bow drawn to 25". While I just planed down 6 new arrows to accommodate the shorter draw length, the arrows in the photo are a full 30". It's a challenge to wrap your mind around the idea that this bow shoots hard (52#) at the 25" draw length.

Offline burchett.donald

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #19 on: August 10, 2014, 02:05:33 pm »
  Nice bend Doc... 8) Like the art work also...
                                                                                                           Don
Genesis 27:3 Now therefore take, I pray thee, thy weapons, thy quiver and thy bow, and go out to the field, and take me some venison;

Offline docmann

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #20 on: August 10, 2014, 05:02:39 pm »
Thanks gang. I appreciate the nice comments. In a couple of months we'll see how she performs in the "real world".
Doc

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #21 on: August 10, 2014, 05:44:45 pm »
This subject comes up on a regular basis and I'm glad...  there's always something new to learn about short bows and pushing the wood to its limits.

The formula for long draws on short bows is:  the wider and thinner the limbs, the more it will bend without taking set, and the longer the draw.

You can push the wood as long as the set is 2" or less.  You may also need to break a few bows and tear through several pieces of osage to find the "one" that will bend like crazy.  The only obstacle after that is string angle and stack.  It's very possible to get a 29" draw from a 51" piece of wood (without backing) but it will be painful and/or scary when you see the full draw pic and the limbs might look stupid wide.   :o  That type of bow is not for the faint of heart.   ;D
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

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Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline docmann

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #22 on: August 10, 2014, 07:34:01 pm »
Yep. Always looking for that optimal number. Interestingly, Steve Gardner, in the TBB, swears by the "mass principle". This is based on the premise that ultimately, the mass of the bow determines the optimal performance. Reportedly, the man has made thousands of bows and this unifying principle seems to hold for any type of wood. I didn't weigh my wood before finishing, but based on the mass principle, my bow should weigh about 7 oz. (using the formula of +/-  1/2 oz for every 2" of bow length. A. 58" bow with. 26" DL should weigh 10.5 oz. subtract 3.5 oz (my bow is 7" shorter than the 58" listed) and that brings me to the 7 oz. Since my DL is 25", it should probably even be at 6.5 oz.
I'm not sure just how much paint and tongue oil I have applied, but my bow weighs in just shy of 11 oz.  If his principle is accurate, I've left on too much Osage.
He stated that if one follows this principle, a reliable 170 fps can be expected every time.


Offline burn em up chuck

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #23 on: August 10, 2014, 11:05:39 pm »
very cool info

           chuck
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Offline okie64

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2014, 11:53:05 pm »
That is a great looking tiller doc! Ive been on a short bow kick for the last year or so:) They are fun to shoot once you get used to the short draw.

blackhawk

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2014, 08:18:48 am »
Nice job there!!! :)

Offline docmann

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2014, 09:23:41 am »
Thanks guys!
Almost didn't pursue it because I just couldn't get my heart into a bendy handle with a short pull. I'm still amazed at how well this thing shoots at 18 yards, even with someone like me pulling the string.  Like some of you indicated, this could be addicting.  I'll probably just have to suffer the addiction for a while! One thing's for sure, this one will be in the blind with me October 1st. No need for. a 66" bow when this shorty is casting them every bit as well as I can aim them.
Now, to grip or not to grip ?  Any suggestions, or should I leave it bare wood?

Offline simson

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2014, 01:48:14 pm »
good job, very nice bow and good tiller
Simon
Bavaria, Germany

Offline JackCrafty

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2014, 05:24:20 pm »
Looks like your bow weighs almost twice and much as it needs to according to Steve's mass principle.  It could be a combination of excess moisture and wide tips.  I wouldn't remove any thickness from the tips as this would cause the tips to bend... and you don't want to mess with the tiller.  The tiller looks great as it is.

Native American designs usually have overbuilt limbs with wide tips.  This makes them more durable but sacrifices some speed.

If Steve chimes in, he can give you a better idea where the excess mass might be coming from.  It's definitely not the paint or finish.
Any critter tastes good with enough butter on it.

Patrick Blank
Midland, Texas
Youtube: JackCrafty, Allergic Hobbit, Patrick Blank

Where's Rock? Public Waterways, Road Cuts, Landscape Supply, Knap-Ins.
How to Cook It?  200° for 24hrs then 275° to 500° for 4hrs (depending on type), Cool for 12hr

Offline docmann

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Re: Need input on short Osage bow.
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2014, 02:43:34 am »
I think my natural inclination is to overbuild with the idea that "I can always take a bit more off". Some of my earlier bows are almost laughable as I look at the limb tips.
This bow pulls. 70+ pounds but would probably make a better pry bar because of the limb mass.





No doubt, on many occasions, I've left a great deal of limb speed "on the table". Looking back, and probably like many beginners, I think I began cutting down the limbs from a stiff cumbersome pattern, and stopped when the bow had what seemed like an adequate tiller and cast--never thinking that fair could be made good, and good could be made better.  (Analogous to my 13 year- old son's lawn mowing-just a little more scrutiny, time, and effort would make a marginal job an excellent one.)
Interesting, I've never run into anyone who has applied Mr. Gardner's principle. (No doubt because of my limited experience and contacts.) Admittedly, with this short bow, I weighed in "after the fact". I think I will, at least once, build a bow and apply his principle from the get go. He has apparently worked with a lot of different materials, and I think his "mass principle", the culmination of his years of experience, observation, and application, deserves a shot. It's seems a little different mindset, building a bow with a certain mass as your terminal objective. However, in the process of "making weight" I suppose the scraping and shaping is performed in the same manner as with other bows. Only with Gardner's principle, the ideal mass coaxes you on or tells you when to slam on the brakes.
It would be interesting to know how many have used Gardner's formula from the ground up.