"Moon phase rings" ? in osage. anybody know?

[Pappy]

WOW, the only moon phase I worry about is the full one,cause I am scared of the Wolf man.  Sorry just thought I would lighten things up a bit. Seriously,seen them and don't worry about them as long as I am in a good ring,it does sometimes fool you into thinking you ant till you get the light just right.
 Pappy

[PatM]

Hmmm, it seems like there is some debate between the moon as a source of light versus the way the moon works on the water.
 Nobody is talking about them being a problem, they are just asking what they are.

[Badger]

    It doesn't appear after reading that the moon could have enough effect on ground water to measure. I do like the thought of moonbeams in my bows though.

[George Tsoukalas]

Pat, Luke has a tough stave there. I've gone up and down an osage stave to get one ring.

Jawge

[IdahoMatt]

Most of the pics I've seen of the lunar rings seem to be easy to see.  Why not count them. And see how many full moons there are in a given growth cycle of the tree in your area.  Just wait till the tree starts budding and then just when the leaves are turning before dormancy.  Seems like there are more rings than full moons but I don't have any staves with lunate rings.  Things seem to grow too slowly out in the desert.

[PatM]

Pat, Luke has a tough stave there. I've gone up and down an osage stave to get one ring.

Jawge

That wasn't the question. I just wondered if you think those are 9 or so full years of growth or the smaller layers of one full year.

 Steve, It would be hard to measure that for sure but the water table is massive in areas.

[TRACY]

In the original picture I see a contrast in the annual growth ring. Is it a "lunar" ring? If so, what characteristic(s) determine it to be a lunar ring and not evidence of water uptake from a rain after a month of dry conditions? A change in soil pH? Weather patterns? Tree damage?
Too many other variables that could potentially explain the variations within an annual growth ring and like I said before it is an interesting concept, but it's just lacking any solid evidence that the moon is to blame for the blemish.

If the term lunar rings is cool and inspires you to make a bow then go for it

Tracy

[PatM]

More often than not the number of smaller rings correspond to the length of the growing season in months.
 

[SLIMBOB]

Look at Elm and Hackberry.  The mini rings are clearly visible and seem to correspond to the moons cycles, not periods of plenty.  I think a visual inspection alone discounts that as THE cause.  As Carson said yesterday, as a bowmaker they are of little concern, but as someone who has an interest in the earth sciences, very interesting!

[IdahoMatt]

Good point Bob

[redhawk55]

I wonder why just this topic has such a lot of traffic.
For to be serious, every bowyer denying the existence of these "rings" should easily not call Saul but the closest eye specialist. If we could call these rings within the growthrings "lunar rings" is another question. Above all in elm an almost blind one has to see them. If the growing season is leaving its marks as the "non growing season" it is almost logical that they are more detailed marks like the "lunar rings". Life is not just "yes" or "not".
I find it heavily careless to ignore traditional wisdom, sorry but high tech science is to often acting like a god. How boring would life be without traditional wisdom, without myth and magic, trials and errors. I don' t believe any experienced bowyer stating all his work is based on rationality and science. Above all tillering is much more a feeling than everything else?

Simson, I don' t know why you try to affect others here, but as far as I know the Bavarians still believe the Earth to be a disk and everything is based on weiss beer. Don' t worry, I' m native Bavarian too.
For to quote the "spacemen. net"(http://www.raumfahrer.net/astronomie/sonnensystem/mond_einfluss.shtml)

.......Forscher der Technischen Hochschule in Zürich haben jetzt belegen können, dass es in Bäumen auch Ebbe und Flut gibt. Die Biologen haben dafür tropische Bäume untersucht. Mit einer Apparatur maßen sie den Durchmesser der Pflanzen auf Hundertstel Millimeter genau. Das Ergebnis zeigt ein schwellen und schrumpfen der Bäume im Rhythmus der Gezeiten. Der Zweck dieses Naturschauspiels ist aber noch ungeklärt.............

Translated: researchers of the Technical University of Zurich could prove now(2002) that there is even low and high tide within trees. Biologists researched tropical trees. They measured the diameter of the trees at a hundredth of millimeters. The result is confirming the swelling and shrinking of the trees corresponding the rhythm of the tides. Still the sense of this natural spectacle is unclear......................

The point is that Simsons source is the University of Zurich, my source is the Technical University of Zurich. Two tempels of infallibility( of the same town) came to just opposite conclusions!? So far  science.

It would be interesting to make bows of "staves" cut corresponding to some lunar phases and to compare them to "non lunar" staves.
I guess I' ll not find the spare time to do it.
Michael

[George Tsoukalas]

Pat M, to me they look like narrow full growth rings with much punky, early rings exposed.
I didn't count how many there were.
But, again, the back is not one continuous growth ring. IMHO.
Jawge

[lukelawrence171]

For anyone who is interested i just finshed the bow in all of the pictures and i am working on posting it right now so check the thread if you really want to see how crazy that stave really was.

[Dean Marlow]

I have cut and split my fair share of Osage staves in my life. Up in the hundred's and never heard of lunar rings before. Not saying there isn't but looks like to me thin violated growth rings. I have seen growth rings get skinnier close to knots then widen out going away from a knot. Would of liked to seen the end of the stave to see how the growth rings were running on the stave.

[PatM]

Dean and Jawge,
  I am mildly amazed that two guys with your experience would see things (or not see things) like that. Even if you don't want to call them or believe that they are lunar rings you guys seem to genuinely not see them.
 Somebody posted an end cut of an Osage stave with fat regular growth rings and the micro rings within each large ring stood out like a sore thumb.
 Try to let go of repeating that the back is not one growth ring etc. That's not what we are discussing.
 Here is the other thread although the pictures are no longer visible.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,45990.0.html