Trying to reduce set in my bows....to no avail

[Del the cat]

If you are not getting a little set you are not trying hard enough.

+1
If it has absolutely no set the the wood isn't being stressed.
I I made a 76" ELB with a 20# pull at 28" it would probably have no set... it would perform much worse that a 70" ELB 20# with an inch of set.
Everyone has set, but they often don't say how the stave started out!
Even the 'no set' method relies on you seeing it's just beginning to stop recovering completely E.G It's just starting to take set.
I was chatting to an Austrian bowyer yesterday, who said "Why are you all obsessed with set?" (You can do the accent yourself )
Del

[Sidewinder]

This is just the kind of input I needed. I appreciate the value of this forum and the encouragement we all give one another. I would like to make a couple of points and  speak to the advise given.

I only use well seasoned wood 2yrs-5yrs old

I realize there is no such thing as a no set bow, however bows with enough reflex in them do not have any string follow. Its how to define string follow that may elude me hear and can be clarified.

I have not effectivley used the caul I have to induce enough reflex at the right time in the process to achieve the deadflat or slightly reflexed profile I desire. I also am not sure how to tiller a bow with 3" of starting relfex as most of the ones I start out with have little or no reflex, in fact some have a bit of deflex in the handle due to the natural tendancy of the stave.

I think JonW's statment about getting more even distribution of bend early on before I string it has some merit and I will pay close attention to that.

Robs statement about floor tiller is a good one as well and I know Jon feels that way too as we have discussed his method.

As to Dels comment from the Austrina bowyer about what is our obsession with set, I agree its probabley not a real important factor other than how we like the unbraced profile to look. I am not talking about massive set, maybe 1- 1 1/2" or so, so it does'nt effect performance much. I just know when I look at some of the bows unbraced and they are retaining relex or are deadflat, I being overly critical of my work think to myself, " self, thats what your trying to acheive and its not happening"

As to length/ width/ drawlengths  I have seen my buddy Jimmy make shorter bows at the same or greater poundages  with narrower profiles than mine and have his stuff lay dead flat or a little reflexed. He does induce reflex and his tiller profile is different than mine so that may be unfair comparisons but I know its possible.

Question?  When tillering a bow with reflex, I have heard that they can be somewhat deceptive in seeming heavier in draw weight than what they really are and that one needs to ge the outer limbs moving more than the inner early in the process, is this correct?

I will wait for your responses and thanks again for the input.    Danny

[Buckeye Guy]

The wood is a huge factor in amount of set !
beyond what  never pulling on it more than the desired poundage , I work the mid limbs and outer midlimb area first thenwork my way down into the fades or handle, then lightenup the tips
the desired poundage will dictate to you how much set you get and it will vary depending on the wood.
Osage generaly can be done with little to no set up to about 50lbs the farther you go past 50 the more set it will take
You can start with about 3 in of reflex and not be to concerned with it deceiving you after that sometimes it gets a little tricky
have fun

[Badger]

  Danny, on a reflexed bow you can floor tiller until they are bending equally and evenly and then switch to a long string about the same length as your bow. If it pulls 50# at 20" on the long string it will read about the same at 20" if it were braced. I brace mine when I start reading about 50#@24" on the long string. I just did one this morning with 4 1/2" reflex, it finished with 3 7/8"  reflex.

[PEARL DRUMS]

I didn't read through all of this, hopefully this isn't all redundant. Get your tiller sooner. Ive found the quicker I get my tiller, the better the bow and less set I take on. The longer I finaggle and stretch on limbs the worse the bow gets. A killer floor tiller is key mas well. Don't even think about a string until you can look down each limb on the floor and see a nice arc. Once you train your eye to tiller that way you don't even need a tree.

[chamookman]

I totally agree Chris. An AGRESSIVE floor tiller is paramount. I rarely used the long string at all - too much messing around. Bob

[WillS]

Just out of interest - how are you guys measuring your set?  Back of the bow to the floor and measuring to the belly side of the tips, or bow against the wall back facing out, and measuring wall to belly?  You get pretty big differences using different methods.

[Buckeye Guy]

Just out of interest - how are you guys measuring your set?  Back of the bow to the floor and measuring to the belly side of the tips, or bow against the wall back facing out, and measuring wall to belly?  You get pretty big differences using different methods.

I lay it back on the form that I used to straiten and induce reflex and see how much it has changed from when it was taken off the form !

[Pappy]

I measure with the back of the bow flat against my bench belly side out, to the belly side of the handle,I do this at the beginning so I know what I am starting with,then through out the process. I also eliminate the flipped tips if I have done that by slidding the bow on top of my bench where the flip started on each limb.
That's close enough for me. I flip the tips on most of mine so you won't get much of a reading if you measure from the tip to the floor,that stays pretty constant if they don't pull out and mine usually don't. Also by a lot of looking as you tiller it out,you can see where it is happening,I like the tracing idea Mike does,never tried it but seems that would work very good also.
   Pappy

[Del the cat]

I totally agree Chris. An AGRESSIVE floor tiller is paramount. I rarely used the long string at all - too much messing around. Bob

"Agressive"... So shouting and cussing at the bow helps?
That's where I've been going wrong... I normally just shout and cuss after they explode
Del

[chamookman]

Sorry Del - just trying to make a point  . Seems like a lot of Folk spend way to much time trying to get apiece of wood to bend a couple of inches. Be aggressive, make sure Ya got no hinges or flat spots - and get that thing bending already  . Bob

[George Tsoukalas]

If you are only getting 1-1.5 in. of set, if you are starting from a straight stave,  you are doing outstanding work.
Congratulations and keep up the good work.
Jawge

[4dog]

Jawge says my work is outstanding...!!!   awesome...lol

[Sidewinder]

Well, I went back and remeasured three bows and they range from 1-1/2 to 2" from the back of the bow at the tip to the top of the table,  so I guess its not as bad as I thought.  None of them are even past the top of the handle. I guess maybe I'm just getting a bit obsessed with having a bow that lays flat. Thanks for the words of encouragement.

[PEARL DRUMS]

That's because bows that lay flat or hold a bit of reflex are just plain sexy to look at for some. Sounds like you just need to add 2-3" of starting reflex and its yours.