Introducing myself, and three bows failed (w pics)

[icu812]

First I want to to say that although I've taken a backseat to posting, I've been following PA for some time and stare in awe at the work of the bowyers on this forum. You guys are making beautifully sculpted masterpieces from boards, saplings, and staves that I couldn't possibly imagine bows coming from. I look up to each and every one of you and I cannot express how much the knowledge on this forum has helped me progress.

With that said, I've been bit hard by the bug! I'm 25 and live in Nebraska with my wife and am a lifelong archery enthusiast. After dropping the wheels (the best decision Ive ever made) and going traditional, it was only a matter of time before Id drop traditional and go primitive! Primitive archery and bowyering has captivated my soul and I look forward to seeing where this goes from here!.

I consider myself a pretty proficient woodworker and have quality lumber at my disposal (5 minutes from a saw mill), so I figured this would be a breeze! Id start with a few hickory and oak board bows and be makin meat in no time! WRONG!

My recent attempts at bowyering have left me feeling discouraged.  I've made three pyramids so far and all were shooters...well... kinda. The first was a hickory, #65 @ 28.5.. 72" long. 2.5" faded to 3/8 nocks and a glued on riser. This thing shoots arrows like a powerhouse but almost rips your shoulder out with hand shock.


The second,  red oak, #45 @ 28.5.. 62" long. 1.75" faded to 3/8. Working handle. Shot like a dream until it developed chrysalis along the entire length of both limbs, im guessing from being  too narrow and short.

And the third. Red oak, #45@ 28.5.. 68" long, 2.5 faded to 3/8. Working handle. She was a tilering nightmare fighting me all the way to get the 3/8 neg tiller to 1/8. Shot beautifully for 2-300 arrows before developing very mild frets on the handle fade, so I panicked not wanting to lose another and promptly trapped the back to 60% and heat tempered. I thought my traps looked great! Nice and even, tapered 60% back to belly all the way down, but NO! This threw my tiller to 5/8 pos, and is now 3/8 pos and #30 after a desperate attempt to correct the strong limb.

I uploaded the pics in order from first bow to last so we'll see how they show up. Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself, show my failures, and tell you all how much I admire your work. Onto #4 for me! Wish me luck! Feel free to critique the tillers and design choices as harshly as you want. After my ego got taken down a few notches, I humbly admit that I need some input and advice if I'm ever going to create a critter gitter

[burn em up chuck]

  welcome, have fun and go with it

                                 chuck

[PEARL DRUMS]

Keep kicking! That's my best advice. You obviously have a good direction to head in. Your first bow is a good recipe for an oak board, try dropping the weight down about #10 and have another go at it. If your not using overlays, make those tips no wider than 1/2". A lot of hand shock can be attributed to fat tips, or too light of an arrow. 9-10 gpp is a good start.

[Del the cat]

You have actually learned a lot already.
Don't be discouraged, apply what you've learned and the advice you've been given.
Sometimes less is more. One I've fav'e bows is a 40# hazel primitive 2" wide, a load of set, but it's sweet enough.
We all have bows that are great for a while and the we see a chrysal or it explodes, or it need re-working... we all have a few that we've had to give up on.
The failures are character forming
Keep going, that first really sweet bow isn't too far away... it's a bit like chasing that first girlfriend
Del

[icu812]

I appreciate the words of encouragement!

 Pearl Drums,  I'll take your advice and apply my first design to an oak board.  I usually go about 3/8" or a little less on the tips, and make my own arrows between 10-12gpp, so maybe beginner's tillering mistakes?  I'm gonna have to try a gizmo on then next one instead of eyeballing and see if it helps.

Del, I completely agree. My trad bows were heavy, usually toward the highest available weight. I can shoot the heavy ones all day without fatigue, but can say that iv never had a more enjoyable shooting experience than the long afternoon with the 62 inch 45# oak bow before it chrysaled. I think I'll try to get one that shoots sweet at 45-ish. I regret not discovering the pure joy and sweet shooting of a lighter bow earlier.

I'd really like to make a working handle hickory board bow. Can anyone share some rough dimensions for a 45# working handle that'll get me on the right track? My draw is 28.5. I know I dont have a lot of room to be picky at this point, but i'm aiming for as short as possible for whitetail season. We have very dense timber in Southeast Nebraska

[wizardgoat]

Hello and welcome.
Lots of guys say to newbies to learn on boards for many reasons.
mainly they're cheap, accessible and dry.
I havent been around that long, but it seems to me like the failure ratio is
a little higher for board bows versus stave bows. Someone please correct me if if I'm wrong.
you seem like you have a grasp on the tillering process, id reccomend you invest in some nice staves, and start cutting your own wood if you havent already.
Ive made nearly 20 bows, 8 being finished and hanging on my wall. All have been staves and I havent broken one yet (knock on wood)
Just seems to me that a board has to be nearly flawless to make a good bow, and its not the case with stave bows.
keep in mind I've only been doing this nearly 8 months, so not very experienced.
have fun!

[wizardgoat]

And youd probably have better luck if you backed your bows

[Buckeye Guy]

Look like good attempts to me !
I have not yet found a piece of Red oak that looked worthy of becoming a bow
But have done many Hickory bows
Other than that I agree with Pearly the drummer boy
Stay about 45 -50 lbs till you get things going and take all the physical weight off the tips you can bring yourself to remove
Don't shoot wheely bow arrows get some with some meat to them
You sir are well on the way to a terrible addiction
there should be some Osage close to you so let the games begin!
Guy

[Badger]

    Your tillering looks pretty good, the top bow maybe bending a bit too much into the fades. Are you up to speed on wood selection and understand the grain orientation needed to make bow. You seem to have the skill set.

[Jim Davis]

I don't see the tillering on the top bow as you do Steve.

The top image  here is ICU's top photo and below it, I have flipped the bow horizontally. It's pretty clear that the right limb is bending much more  than the left.

[Badger]

  Jim, I just meant he seemed to have the concept of tillering down fairly well.

[mullet]

Welcome, and it already looks like you are bitten . You are getting advice from the best of the best and I have to agree with Badger your tillering skills are very good but a little off in the first bow. I also have to go along with wizardgoat, if I was going to learn with oak or hickory I'd work with a hickory stave. very simple, just scrape off the bark and cambium and do what you have been doing.

You're almost there, keep on, keeping on and all the advice you need is here for free.

[mwosborn]

Hey icu.   Looks like you have gained a lot of valuable experience with the first 3 bows.  They don't look bad for your fist attempts and your bows will get better!  Where do you live at in NE?  You may know already, but the NTA (Nebraska Traditional Archers) has a self bow jamboree in July - I believe it is the 19 and 20 this year.  It is held in Fremont.  Here is the link to the NTA website if you are interested.  Lots of good people and lots of experience there.  Maybe we will see you there.  I live in Albion (about 100 miles northwest of Omaha).  Mitch

[icu812]

I live about 15 minutes from a gentleman who distributes (e-b*y) large quantities of seasoned bow staves of many species. It's easier to cut my own on the property and let them season as I improve my technique on $10 boards.

I have chose boards for now Wizard, because they are cheap and I have no hard feelings when they don't work out. I'd hate to put all that effort into a beautiful stave and have it turn out like any of my first three.

No wheelie arrows here Buckeye, I turn my own shafts out of various lumber and spine/weight match them (been turning arrows much longer than whittling bows). There is more Osage here than I can even explain. The woods where I live is (no joke) probably about 40% osage trees and 60% every other species. They've completely taken over!

I'm up to speed on boards Badger. I only choose quarter or rift sawn and I am VERY particular about the grain. I usually won't take it unless is has absolutely no run off. Just trying to eliminate one more variable in this already challenging endeavor.

Asharrow, Thank you for taking the time to flip that photo. I see guys drawing grids and lines and using computer programs from time to time, but was trying to keep my mess as simple as possible. I never thought of something as simple as flipping horizontally and you've just given me another great tool!

Sounds like I need to harvest some staves and saplings over the long Independence Day weekend and get them seasoning! You can't throw a rock without hitting a bow worthy tree species here.

Mitch, I have looked at the NTA website and the events several times! A couple friends and I were going to come up to the annual carp shoot but the weather that weekend was brutal! I think they had baseball sized hail that afternoon (or maybe that was the week before?). I live about 100 miles southeast of Fremont. I will check the work schedule and will definitely try to be there in July. That sounds like a great time.

I appreciate the words of encouragement and guidance! I would never have tapped into this art if it weren't for the PA Community and all the knowledge that's shared here. For that I thank you all. 

[bubbles]

Well, none of your bow have outright broken, correct? Seems like you're doing pretty well.  I don`t see the need to back your bows as your tillering seems pretty good to me.    You just have bad handshock on the hickory bow, and the two red oak bows have gotten chrysals?  A red oak bow that chrysaled? Never seen that before...  
If you feel like it, you could try re-tillering the #65 hickory to see if you can cut down on the shock, You've got a fair bit of weight to play with.