Tiller shape/advice?

[Crogacht]

I dunno, I left the ridges on the handle because it looked kind of cool, but you're right, pretty impractical. I'll probably remove them.

Alright, I'll shape the tips a bit more. I wanted them to stay stiff but they probably don't need THAT much mass, you're right, Thanks Darksoul.

I thought I had it moving enough on the floor, but maybe not. I'm only pulling about 20lb in those pics. I don't have anything (other bows) to compare it to, but I'll try your other suggestions, Thanks Pearl Drums.

One more question: If I've pulled it to about 20lb on the tiller tree, as shown in the pictures, is it going to make any difference if I flip it over and make the belly the back and vice versa? All 4 sides on this stave have been worked, so there's no "back" as such, it's really just the centre of a sapling. I'm just thinking the handle is going to be better as a normal handle rather than a reverse handle.

[SLIMBOB]

I read this question yesterday.  I was confused then and now.  Have you follow a continues unbroken ring on the back and the belly?  I doubt that, so did you simply remove the bark all the way around the circumference and you have not touched it as far as any kind of tillering for weight removal?

[Crogacht]

I read this question yesterday.  I was confused then and now.  Have you follow a continues unbroken ring on the back and the belly?  I doubt that, so did you simply remove the bark all the way around the circumference and you have not touched it as far as any kind of tillering for weight removal?

The stave is from a 3 inch lancewood sapling, and lancewood has quite deep ridges running all the way up the trunk, so you have to remove them or you end up concentrating the stress along these ridges and they just crack. It's also diffuse porous. So not only can you not follow a ring because of the ridges, but it doesn't really have any rings anyway. Our native forests are basically topical/sub-tropical, so mostly dense, hard, diffuse porous wood.

The stave is basically a 3 inch sapling worked down on all sides probably. I'm not sure exact dimensions, but I have been gradually removing wood during floor tiller and I have just put it on the tree. The tips are moving about 4 inches at 20lb.

[SLIMBOB]

I'm not familiar with the tropicals at all, so maybe they are different than our N American DP woods like Maple for example, but if the back does not have continues uncut fibers from tip to tip, I would suspect it wont take much to break it in tension.  Don't know that wood, so I'll be watching to see how others see this.

[Crogacht]

I'm not familiar with the tropicals at all, so maybe they are different than our N American DP woods like Maple for example, but if the back does not have continues uncut fibers from tip to tip, I would suspect it wont take much to break it in tension.  Don't know that wood, so I'll be watching to see how others see this.

Yeah, unfortunately I can't get too much specific advice on obscure woods. All I can really find out about it myself is that it's "very hard". If I can finish a few bows I might have the experience to deal with unusual woods, but not sure how I'll go with this one. Will see I guess.

[Crogacht]

I know the tiller is completely wrong. It's all hinges and flat spots and the fades are doing too much bending.

Although it raised a splinter, it didn't blow up like the last one, so I feel like I've kind of made progress...Or maybe lancewood just tolerates terrible tiller... I don't know. But I think I'll try this wood again one day and attempt to do it justice.

The stave will happily pull 35#@28" on the tiller tree, and it holds together fine, but I'm not brave enough to try a real full draw with an arrow. And that to me doesn't qualify as a bow.

So, I think I'll say "Thanks" for what I learnt from a 3 inch sapling with a completely violated back that held 35# @ 28" and still only complained with a wee splinter, and I'll set it on the shelf next to my first stave, an elm with a snapped in half lower limb to remind me of what I've learnt so far.

Thanks for all the advice on this one guys. It was wrong in pretty much every way, so thanks for being so kind, considering what I was working with 

[bubbles]

Superglue the splinter down + rawhide back = bow (maybe)

[SLIMBOB]

Kudos on several things.  Number one for getting in the game and doing it.  Amazing how that can lead you in all kinds of directions.  Number two for recognizing some of your challenges and frankly mistakes on this one.  That's growth and it can take you much farther on your next one.  Were it me, I would set this one aside and start planning my next one, taking some of the things I've learned and incorporate them into the next build.  Start with the basics.  If you have TBB 1, read it cover to cover.  If not get and read it cover to cover.  Reread it if you already have read it, cover to cover.  It covers the absolute fundamentals of this craft, and knowing those fundamentals is essential and will save you from all kinds of frustrations going forward.  Good luck on the next one.

[Shamusrobert]

Hard luck Ben, hope I didn't put you crook.
Our diffuse porous woods do have annual growth rings and will lift a splinter or snap if they are violated. Lancewood some how has a different growth structure but will still lift a splinter if violated to bad.I normally only decrown enough to remove the ridges then often back them with silk.
Get back on the horse theres plenty more lancewood out there that stave would of tourt you a lot.

[Don Case]

If you want advise from someone as green as you I would suggest making a few more Elm bows until you're more confident in your abilities. Then come back to the Lancewood and show it who's boss!

[Crogacht]

Superglue the splinter down + rawhide back = bow (maybe)

I had read about people doing that, but this one is deep. Probably more of a minor crack than a major splinter, but it holds together at full draw so calling it a splinter saves my ego a little bit  I'll just leave it I think.

Kudos on several things.  Number one for getting in the game and doing it.  Amazing how that can lead you in all kinds of directions.  Number two for recognizing some of your challenges and frankly mistakes on this one.  That's growth and it can take you much farther on your next one.  Were it me, I would set this one aside and start planning my next one, taking some of the things I've learned and incorporate them into the next build.  Start with the basics.  If you have TBB 1, read it cover to cover.  If not get and read it cover to cover.  Reread it if you already have read it, cover to cover.  It covers the absolute fundamentals of this craft, and knowing those fundamentals is essential and will save you from all kinds of frustrations going forward.  Good luck on the next one.

Appreciate it SLIMBOB. My first two staves have been nasty ones, but I feel like I've got about 6 broken bows worth of experience out of them, so I'm not too worried about it. Definitely lots of mistakes on this one.

My next elm is ready to have the centreline drawn and roughed out now, so I'll be back into it this weekend I'll be making up some cauls/forms and getting her nice and straight this time. My first elm had prop twist, knots, lateral bend and one deflexed limb, so I'm going to try and correct that this time to make my job a bit easier. It seems like really nice wood though, I like it.

Yep, I have all 4 TBB, and I reread them constantly, the problem is remembering and applying everything at once There's so much good info in there.

Thanks SLIMBOB, I need it.

Hard luck Ben, hope I didn't put you crook.
Our diffuse porous woods do have annual growth rings and will lift a splinter or snap if they are violated. Lancewood some how has a different growth structure but will still lift a splinter if violated to bad.I normally only decrown enough to remove the ridges then often back them with silk.
Get back on the horse theres plenty more lancewood out there that stave would of tourt you a lot.

Thanks Rob. Definitely not, I think you're 100% right on the Lancewood.

This one was only 3 inches at the widest point, and from what I've seen the smaller they are, the worse the ridges are. There's a big one at the park and the ridges are very shallow. They were so deep on this one, that by the time I had taken them off, I reckon I was left with a 50 lb bow, and that's BEFORE any tillering or anything. So I think it was going to be pretty difficult at my skill level to get a decent bow.

Ok, I didn't know that, but I'll have a much closer look next time. I've got a couple more elm staves then I'll be back to native for a bit, probably black beech.

Yep, Thanks Rob, I wasn't very happy when I broke my elm, but this one didn't really bother me, I hadn't expected to get that far with it, but learnt some more good stuff, so it's all good.

If you want advise from someone as green as you I would suggest making a few more Elm bows until you're more confident in your abilities. Then come back to the Lancewood and show it who's boss!

Hahaha, you should see my elm But I agree, everyone around here has experience with it and can offer advice at least. Hope your bow making is going well Don.