Author Topic: Soft woods/Sap woods and backing  (Read 2791 times)

0 Members and 4 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline DougTheHeavy

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
Soft woods/Sap woods and backing
« on: May 22, 2014, 07:18:59 pm »
Hey guys. I'm been reading this forum and subscribing to the magazine since last Christmas when I discovered the art of bow making. Many of you have already helped me quite a bit and i thank you. Looking forward to seeing if someone can help me with my quandary today.

I recently made an ELB from ERC. I was mighty proud of it; the way the pale sap wood of the limbs gave way to the red heart wood of the raiser, the bark and cambium I left on the back was exactly the look I was wanting. But I had never made a bow from such soft wood. I didn't know its properties very well and wasn't sure how durable it was. So, to play it safe I threw a layer of clear fiberglass over it. I can still see the beautiful back very well, but there are some fogy spots and in one little area that doesn't seem to be spreading, the fiberglass has lifted from the bow. Looks like it just didn't have enough contact, or it pulled loose material up.

Now I see ERC's and black walnuts with NO backing at all?? help me out fellas, do I need a backing on my sap wood bows and my soft wood bows (maple)? I'd like them to last a little while.

-Doug

Offline huisme

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,036
  • I'm Marc, but not that Marc.
Re: Soft woods/Sap woods and backing
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2014, 08:30:14 pm »
Black walnut and maples can be treated about the same: peal the bark and make a bow. ERC, as I understand it, can be made the same way but is better with sap back and heart belly (don't quote me).

Also, maple is a hardwood. I've personally never had luck with boards so I won't comment there, but I've never had a maple stave of any kind splinter/explode on me.
50#@26"
Black locust. Black locust everywhere.
Mollegabets all day long.
Might as well make them short, save some wood to keep warm.

Offline PatM

  • Member
  • Posts: 6,737
Re: Soft woods/Sap woods and backing
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2014, 10:51:37 pm »
Rawhide is a good protective measure for woods like that.

Offline DarkSoul

  • Member
  • Posts: 1,315
    • Orion Bows
Re: Soft woods/Sap woods and backing
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 09:23:59 am »
(...) in one little area that doesn't seem to be spreading, the fiberglass has lifted from the bow. Looks like it just didn't have enough contact, or it pulled loose material up.

Now I see ERC's and black walnuts with NO backing at all?? help me out fellas, do I need a backing on my sap wood bows and my soft wood bows (maple)? I'd like them to last a little while.
IF you glue any type of backing (f!b€rgl@$$, rawhide, sinew, wood, linen cloth etc.) onto a stave bow, you need to remove all cambium and inner bark, and apply the backing directly onto the wood. Cambium is not so tightly attached to the wood, generally speaking, so it's very understandable that the backing will peel off from the wood, taking the cambium with it.

There is a difference between "softwood" and "soft wood". Mind the space! Eastern red cedar (ERC), yew and pine are all softwoods: woods from needle leaf trees. Any wood from a broadleaf tree species is considered a "hardwood". The terms softwood and hardwood have nothing to do with the hardness of the wood! High ringcount yew is a softwood with hard wood, while balsa wood is a hardwood with soft wood. Maple is a hardwood with hard wood. Although there is also soft maple (such as red and silver maple) which is a rather softish hardwood. To add to that, not all wood species have sapwood and heartwood. Walnut, yew and ERC do indeed have clearly visible sapwood and heartwood. But maple (and also ash and hickory, to name a few) don't have heartwood. It's all sapwood, while old trees might form a dark heart, which is 'false heartwood'.
So when do you need a backing? It has nothing to do with the wood being soft, or the wood species being a softwood, or the bow having a sapwood back! The necessity for a backing is dictated with the tensile strength of the wood species (a mechanical property of the species), or by the grain pattern on the back of the stave/board. ERC has a fairly low tensile strength, while it has a very decent compression strength and excellent elasticity (inherent properties of the wood species). As such, a bow will likely fail in tension (=on the back) before it fails in compression (=on the belly). A backing is therefore a smart choice, since it elevates the tensile strength of the bow.
The wood species ash generally has a high tensile strength and a decent compression strength. It would not need a backing, based on the mechanical properties of the wood species, yet we see backed ash bows every now and again. That is usually done when the back of the bow is compromised, when it does not show the best properties for a highest tensile strength configuration. That is the case when the grain is violated, such as in a board that is not straight grained.
Black walnut and ERC are both wood species with a pretty low tensile strength and they are generally backed. However, the backing is not necessary, and a skilled bowyer can easily make a selfbow (without backing). When the back is as strong as possible, the tensile strength can still be enough. The back must be straight grained, with no violations, and the design of the bow must be adequate to handle the tensile forces. For a beginner, this may not be as easy as it sounds. A backing is then a smarter idea, since it adds a lot of security to the bow.
"Sonuit contento nervus ab arcu."
Ovid, Metamorphoses VI-286

Offline Pappy

  • Global Moderator
  • Member
  • Posts: 32,137
  • if you have to ask you wouldn't understand ,Tenn.
Re: Soft woods/Sap woods and backing
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 09:35:45 am »
Good explanation DarkSoul, I enjoyed that. :)
  Pappy
Clarksville,Tennessee
TwinOaks Bowhunters
Life is Good

Offline bow101

  • Member
  • Posts: 2,235
Re: Soft woods/Sap woods and backing
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 06:03:40 pm »
Did you have a previous post..?
"The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are."  Joseph Campbell

Offline zenart

  • Member
  • Posts: 115
Re: Soft woods/Sap woods and backing
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2014, 05:01:49 pm »
Bravo Darksoul! You covered it beautifully. (especially entertained by your political correctness in the ID of one of those listed backings. LOL)
Huntington Beach, CA … there's no trees here but we do have lumber yards.