The Showdown

[paulsemp]

I think this post should be renamed to "primitive drama". Just read most of it and sounds like a cat fight. Now I just want to see the end result....

[criveraville]

The topic of the thread (60# @ 26" selfbow with given specs) is quite legitimate and interesting, but there was probably (definitely) a much nicer way to go about it I guess.

This could actually make for a cool event, someone issues a challenge and a bow as a prize, then they do a bow swap with whoever manages to make the required bow first to whatever crazy specifications set by the challenger.

People would participate purely for the love of a challenge though, nothing else.

Thanks for the explanation guys.

Ok. Let me get this straight as a sidewinder's movement..

11 pages of baby drama based on yes it can! No it can't?!

Is that a correct conclusion??

Cipriano

[Arrowind]

I actually like all the "atta boys" and "nice jobs!"   Not boring to me.  Maybe it's because I still consider myself very new and need all the positive reinforcement I can get.        I'll admit it I have a very fragile ego.  But it is very motivating to me to do the best I can on a bow that I actually might take a picture or two or twelve and post on a site like this.   I'll admit I have many that I would be too embarrassed to tell anyone here about.   

I have also thouroughly enjoyed reading "poplar" and "osage king" threads and "stave or board" or "backed or unbacked" or "how the heck do I do this" threads and talk about "mass principles" and "side tillering" or "snake skins and fish skins", "deflex reflex or deflex recurve?" and many other "get-you-thinking-asking-questions-motivated-to-try-something-new-threads." 

I just sat here and read this entire thread.  Was gonna watch TV but got sucked in.

I have to say I have laughed and seriously laughed out loud when Ryoon piped in and have also cringed a little.  It does pain me to see two of the guys who I admire most some of the "big guns" bickering about this.   

I can put that aside though.  Both Adam and Marc are two of the best bowyers on this site in my book.  You guys have extreme talent in areas that you have each focused on in your bow making careers.  More so than I can imagine.  I admire and respect the well earned talent and hope to approach the levels of skill you BOTH have developed.  I am constantly amazed at the bows you guys throw up here.  And many of the people who have chimed in.    Anyway.  Both have made good points and I'm sure both have said things that maybe just maybe you will regret later down the road.  I could be wrong or very idealistic but I'd rather see you guys having a more productive discussion.  You are each kind of ambassadors of what we all love to do.  Build bows. 

Or you can just fight for another 20 pages or so.      

Honestly I sure hope not.   I like to go on in life thinking people on this site genuinely get along. 

in short.  stop fighting.  You are both awesome and have much to offer everyone last member on this site.   I would count myself very lucky to learn from either one of you and I'm grateful that I have.   I am secretly stealing all of your secrets anyway. 

What I think I'm really looking forward to is seeing Ryoon post a 100# poplar bow!     I think he's the kind of guy that against all odds could actually do it.   

What about a 100# wood cross bow?   You would not need the draw length and it would be MUCH more practical I would think.

[son of massey]

http://www.straightdope.com/

 The best explanation of the glue bond  I've seen . We learned about this  in college  (Cabinetmaking) That was a long time ago had to look for a refresher myself . Of particular interest in this article is that it starts out with" We don't really know". ................................... Science is really a lot  of that. It's just not usually admitted.  
   Another experiment like the 2 pieces of steel with copper in between. Take 2 pieces of glass (clean and flat) and add a drop of water between them. If they are dead flat , you don't even need the water. Try to pull them apart. 


As for the rest of this topic, ............ try to keep in the spirit of this forum everybody . I'm not sure why it has been allowed to carry on in this fashion for so long.
 

I will read the article linked, haven't gotten to it yet. But the examples you give are worth considering. Again, I would hazard a guess that the steel copper interface (when stressed) is more of a steel-copper alloy layer unless the pieces separate cleanly (which they may, I am curious about this effect).

The other case is more like our glue joints i think. The glass and water thing is really that water has a high surface tension, and that force is a barrier to overcome when you pull at the glass. Important to our discussion from before is that after they are apart you have two wet pieces of glass-it has not changed through reaction with water at any level, molecular or otherwise. When enough surface area is presented things like hydrogen bonding can form surprisingly strong interactions without a real reaction-these are the things that hold your whole body together in fact.

[Badger]

  I kind of enjoy the idea of a challenge thread. I certainly don't need any bows, I don't make bows for a living, I just enjoy making them, if they break or don't break means little to me as the price of a piece of wood for me is like the price of going to a movie, I build bows to entertain myself.

[mikekeswick]

All this talk of 'what would I do with it afterwards' ' pointless bow' etc.......well it's pretty darn simple - just keep narrowing it until it's the weight you want. Anybody who has done this before will know that you can easily reduce a 100# bow to 60# with no loss of performance (same gpp arrow).
I'll be working on mine tomorrow. 

[nathan elliot]

I think we ought to start thinking on a name for this mythical (so far) bow, you know like in Game Of Thrones with the swords names like "oath keeper". I'm thinking "teddy thrower" what do you think?

[Del the cat]

I think we ought to start thinking on a name for this mythical (so far) bow, you know like in Game Of Thrones with the swords names like "oath keeper". I'm thinking "teddy thrower" what do you think?

Teddy thrower...
Damn you made me snort my tea over the keyboard!
Del

[Slackbunny]

I think we ought to start thinking on a name for this mythical (so far) bow, you know like in Game Of Thrones with the swords names like "oath keeper". I'm thinking "teddy thrower" what do you think?

Or we could call it Napoleon. Short bow, big punch!

[PatM]

All this talk of 'what would I do with it afterwards' ' pointless bow' etc.......well it's pretty darn simple - just keep narrowing it until it's the weight you want. Anybody who has done this before will know that you can easily reduce a 100# bow to 60# with no loss of performance (same gpp arrow).
I'll be working on mine tomorrow. 

Of course Mike, but if  the bow is built to prove a point then some would rather keep it in original form.  A bow that someone is skeptical about holding together carries a bit more weight if it keeps shooting for years.
 
 

[Marc St Louis]

I wanted to clarify what it was that actually started this, well let's just call it a "debate"  .  Adam made this statement

66" ntn for longer draws and heavier weights, and down to 60" ntn for shorter draws and lighter weights.

which I rebuked with this statement

Not quite sure where people get this length measurements in relation to draw weight.  The length of a bow is directly proportional to draw length, draw weight is irrelevant.  That's like saying you are going to make a a 60" bow for a guy that wants a 35# bow with a  32" draw, absurd.  You can make a 60" bow pull 100# as long as the draw length matches the length of the bow.

.  Adam's statement is misinformation and put out there for the masses to see which I couldn't let stand.  Most accomplished bowyers know this, either by experience or by instinct, but newbies reading this would get the wrong idea.  I guess this burnt Adam's behind and the war was on

[Cameroo]

Just thought I'd throw this out there... 

[Marc St Louis]

What arouses my curiosity is how many people here think this bow can be made without too much trouble and how many think it can't be done.  I know several have chimed in saying that it can, and fairly easily, but not many have openly said no.  I did notice that pretty well all that said yes were experienced bowyers with a high degree of talent.

[Marc St Louis]

  I kind of enjoy the idea of a challenge thread. I certainly don't need any bows, I don't make bows for a living, I just enjoy making them, if they break or don't break means little to me as the price of a piece of wood for me is like the price of going to a movie, I build bows to entertain myself.

I think it's a good idea as well Steve, I just don't have the time to participate right now.  I have a sportsman show coming up this weekend I have to prepare for, then I have a lot of firewood I have to split, never mind the woodshed I have to build for the wood, and because we just moved back here last year there are a lot of other things that need to be done.  I am overwhelmed and may have to put bow building on the back-burner for a little while again this year, something I don't really want to do.

[criveraville]

I think we ought to start thinking on a name for this mythical (so far) bow, you know like in Game Of Thrones with the swords names like "oath keeper". I'm thinking "teddy thrower" what do you think?

Teddy thrower...
Damn you made me snort my tea over the keyboard!
Del

Del, hold your tea man.. Hold your tea like a good English man