Author Topic: Selfbow FPS?  (Read 28189 times)

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Offline Fred Arnold

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2014, 08:32:50 am »
 ::) I can see where this might be heading.
I found many years ago that it is much easier and more rewarding working with those that don't know anything than those that know it all.

Offline George Tsoukalas

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2014, 10:36:59 am »
E-MC squared is the formula that applies when matter (M) is converted to energy (E) as in a nuclear reaction. C is the speed of light squared (3 x 10 to the 8th meters/ second). Even Badger can't get an arrow to go that fast. :)

Applicable formulas:
Force = mass X acceleration  ... which is the one I favor...

Kinetic Energy= 1/2 mass x velocity squared

Sorry  as I do not know how to do superscripts on my mac.

Jawge
« Last Edit: March 17, 2014, 10:45:28 am by George Tsoukalas »
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Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2014, 02:30:51 pm »
Good one Del  :laugh:

Like I said, I am no physician , but I see the equation as indication that an underlying universal law is that energy is a function of the relationship between mass and movement. 

I was wondering why Momentum is not used more when discussing arrow dynamics.  momentum = mass *velocity 
Is it not applicable?
"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso

Offline adb

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #63 on: March 19, 2014, 10:56:56 am »
Hey Carson... a physician is someone who cures the sick. A physicist is someone who studies physics... but I know you knew that, right?  ::) ;D

Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #64 on: March 19, 2014, 01:27:15 pm »
adb, yeah sure, and next you tell me a physiologist is someone who cures the sick using physics   ;D ;D
"The bow is the old first lyre,
the mono chord, the initial rune of fine art
The humanities grew out from archery as a flower from a seed
No sooner did the soft, sweet note of the bow-string charm the ear of genius than music was born, and from music came poetry and painting and..." Maurice Thompso

Offline adb

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #65 on: March 19, 2014, 03:13:17 pm »
adb, yeah sure, and next you tell me a physiologist is someone who cures the sick using physics   ;D ;D

You got it brother! ::)

Offline Swatch

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #66 on: March 20, 2014, 01:22:02 pm »
Dr. Ed Ashby has been doing research on arrow penetration for about 2 decades now and his research will clearly answer many of the questions and theories being expressed here. You can find a presentation that he made to the Michigan Bowhunters at the Tuffhead broadhead site.  Dr. Ashby talks about momentum vs kinetic energy, showing that momentum is highly correlated to increased penetration, so the advice about heavy arrows is very good. Dr. Ashby shows a correlation between penetration and arrows that are above 650 grains. It would be very good to go through his entire presentation, including his presentation on the New Guinea people shooting the 4000 grain arrows, which by the way are not fletched, which further increases their quietness.

PAHunter, get David Petersen's book A Man Made of Elk, , He will clearly explain what it takes to get an elk with a self bow. He is what I would consider an authority on elk hunting in Colorado. For those deer hunters who have not taken elk with a bow, it is much different. Elk are harder to bring down. Shot placement, heavy arrows, and sharp broadheads are very important, as always! I got a cow elk last year and I went through much of the same mental exercise as PAHunter.
Steve Hatch
The Yurt Man

Offline PAHunter

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #67 on: March 20, 2014, 02:10:34 pm »
@Swatch: thanks much man!  I'll definitely check out Dr. Ed's research.  650gr wow!  The ones I'm planning on taking ATM are 550 but there is still time to reconsider that.  I just ordered David's book!  I've been looking for a good book to read.   
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln

Offline Pat B

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #68 on: March 20, 2014, 02:16:16 pm »
550 gr arrow with a very sharp broadhead from a 55# bow should do what you need done if you do your part.   
Make the most of all that comes and the least of all that goes!    Pat Brennan  Brevard, NC

Offline Swatch

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #69 on: March 20, 2014, 02:47:16 pm »
Let me know how you like the book. I am shooting arrows that average 602 grains with a +-4 grain range. I shoot 300 grain Tuffheads giving me about 30%  forward of center (FOC). The arrows fly great.  My bow is just over 50# @ 28.5" and I limit my range to <35 yards.
Steve Hatch
The Yurt Man

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #70 on: March 20, 2014, 02:53:25 pm »
Ashby's fact-based data applies wonderfully with elk because his research is on larger game animals in Africa, not our thin skinned North American deer.  And there is great statistical value in his work because it encompasses not just a few animals taken by a few combinations of tackle, but it's measured in thousands upon thousands of game animals. 
Guns have triggers. Bicycles have wheels. Trees and bows have wooden limbs.

Offline PAHunter

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #71 on: March 20, 2014, 04:06:44 pm »
I got a cow elk last year and I went through much of the same mental exercise as PAHunter.

Oh and congradulations!!  That must have been a great feeling!
Thanks,
Rob - Wexford, PA

"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will spend the first four sharpening the axe". - Abe Lincoln

Offline Badger

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #72 on: March 20, 2014, 06:11:28 pm »
Good one Del  :laugh:

Like I said, I am no physician , but I see the equation as indication that an underlying universal law is that energy is a function of the relationship between mass and movement. 

I was wondering why Momentum is not used more when discussing arrow dynamics.  momentum = mass *velocity 
Is it not applicable?

  Carson, momentum is used when discussing penetration. When discussing bow performance kinetic energy is used because it remains relatively constant within a normal arrow mass range. You can't do anything to change the kinetic energy but you can make adjustments to your arrow weight to increase momentum. In reality bows are also more efficient with heavier arrows even if they are a bit slower, they have more kinetic energy as well.

Offline adb

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Re: Selfbow FPS?
« Reply #73 on: March 20, 2014, 07:13:49 pm »
550 gr arrow with a very sharp broadhead from a 55# bow should do what you need done if you do your part.

A big +1 on that.