Author Topic: How War Bows were manufactured for wars  (Read 16818 times)

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Offline Badger

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How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« on: March 06, 2014, 02:59:21 pm »
  Has anyone read any history on the actual manufacturing process of war bows? I would be curious to see how a regular military bow looked as opposed to a soldier or officer who may get a custom one done. Did yhey use helpers to rough out bows and do the finishing? did one guy do the nocks while another guy built the bows? How much has been discovered on this?

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2014, 03:39:18 pm »
I've been kinda curious about the mass production needed for war as well myself. Is it too far fetched to think that bow making was not as uncommon as today, and maybe most men made their own, or had one made for them, opposed to having someone order a couple hundred from so and so, etc. If I was an archer, I would have a bow, period. And if I was going to war, I would bring my bow, period. But then again, maybe that is far from how it would of worked then. Maybe they would have military issued bows to each archer, is that more likely?
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline WillS

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2014, 04:24:06 pm »
Interesting topic.  Looking forward to seeing lots of different opinions on this.  Personally I see warbows back then as rifles today.  Government issued in times of war, mass-produced and as normal during conflict as anything else but not personal or unique or made by the soldier.

Considering that the bowyers guilds kept their bow making methods a secret, and it was only passed through generations as compared to being shared with the community I think it's unlikely that everyone was making their own bows.  I can see logic in the theory that perhaps some guys made their own from easy-to-find materials such as ash, holly, plum and hazel to have a bow to practice with but I would imagine that in most cases they were very simple affairs.  Probably not particularly well finished or perfectly tillered as compared to the military-grade Italian, Portugese and Spanish yew bows that were made specially by the guilds and kept in storage for military use.  These bows would probably then be handed out to soldiers in general.   Looking at the bowyers' marks on the Mary Rose bows and the detailed tables in Weapons Of Warre, there are lots of recurring marks - bows can be grouped based on the marks.  There are sets of chevrons (3, 5, 7 and so on) in fir tree patterns or crosses and these seem the most common.  Perhaps the number of chevrons indicated the draw weight of the bow, and each soldier knowing his own draw weight would take a bow from the right chest or group safe in the knowledge that the bow would be within a certain tolerance of his particular draw weight.

There are bowyers' marks that are more unique - circles, crosses, intricate stamps etc - that might suggest personal bows or bows for higher-ranking archers or group commanders.

Whether there was a production line within the guilds is a really interesting question - we know there were horners who worked horn (and Mark Stretton's theory is that the young cow horn with it's natural cone hollow was prepared by the horners and then worked into a basic shape by the bowyer) but it's a fascinating thought that perhaps there were trained bowyers who prepared the stave - roughed out the stave blank into square stock and established tapers - and a second bowyer rounding corners and tillering (as Jaro said, once the tapers are established on a Mary Rose style bow, providing it's been done carefully and accurately then tillering only takes 40mins or less)

Offline Del the cat

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2014, 06:37:19 pm »
I don't think there is any good info.
IMO it is futile to hypothesise as there is no way of proving or disproving the hypothesis.
Del
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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2014, 08:18:50 pm »
Pretty interesting, your probably right Will. Always appreciate your sharing your knowledge, as well as everyone else. I've always been curious how a production line of bow making would work. Man, it must of been some back breaking work, using all hand tools to make hundreds of bows. I know I would of kept my hatchet and draw knife razor blade sharp.  :)
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline WillS

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2014, 09:32:35 pm »
Knowledge? I don't know anything, I just like theorising.  It's what I got into bows for in the first place  :)

I'd love to get round to making a bowyers flote one day.  I can imagine that it would make very short work of a stave, at least getting it to rough tillering proportions.

Offline Badger

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2014, 11:05:04 pm »
I'd love to get round to making a bowyers flote one day?????   What is a bowyers float??

mikekeswick

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2014, 03:11:07 am »
A series of blades mounted in a wooden block that  has a handle. Whatever shape you want to make can be ground into the blades. It is used similary to a scraper mounted in a carrier.

Offline Del the cat

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2014, 03:16:35 am »
There are some nice pics if you google images molding plane.
I'd imagine a bowyers flote would be a long version of one of them.
Dunno if they would actually need a shaped blade,maybe a concave one would be handy.
Del
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Offline WillS

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2014, 09:37:02 am »
This is the badge of the Worshipful Company of Bowyers and shows three bowyers' flotes on the shield



There's also this image



Something similar is this wooden block plane which is much easier to get hold of, or even make and I've seen Chris Boyton using one of these.  The blade is toothed, which leaves nice grooves in the wood.  It has no bias to grain, so it will square off any wood without getting caught or digging into knots or grain swirls.



I would imagine it was a very common tool - I guess the stave would be inspected, marked up, squared off and tapered with the block plane then the edges simply rounded and the bend checked and refined.


Offline Del the cat

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2014, 10:02:58 am »
There was a thread on here (2010) asking what a flotte was. It contained plenty of petty bickering and unconvincing argument.
This pic was the only thing of value on that thread, and is can be seen that the illustration on the Worshipful Company of Bowyers coat of arms could be a representation of such a thing.
Del
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Offline toomanyknots

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2014, 10:45:58 am »
There was a thread on here (2010) asking what a flotte was. It contained plenty of petty bickering and unconvincing argument.
This pic was the only thing of value on that thread, and is can be seen that the illustration on the Worshipful Company of Bowyers coat of arms could be a representation of such a thing.
Del

Cool! I've never seen one before! Does it work like a bunch of little scrappers without the burs?
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline WillS

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2014, 11:08:00 am »
That doesn't look solid enough to me to be able to handle a raw stave.  Looks perfect for rounding an established belly though.

I think the one shown here at 2min is closer, personally.

youtube.com/watch?v=-ISS1MfbC_I&feature=youtube_gdata_player
« Last Edit: March 07, 2014, 05:51:18 pm by Marc St Louis »

Offline Del the cat

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2014, 01:39:13 pm »
Ah, That looks like a big dreadnaught file with a handle.
Del
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Offline WillS

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Re: How War Bows were manufactured for wars
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2014, 02:20:05 pm »
Yup, but it's still not quite right is it.  The drawings show a much deeper body. 

FWIW I use a dreadnaught file for all my roughing out as the guy who first showed me how to make bows recommended them.  I can imagine a really deep one with handles like that would go through wood like butter.