Ocean Spray Mollegabet

[Don Case]

I'll give it a shot. I have a koi pond I can throw it in. I just have to wait until this latest dump of snow melts so I can get into the bush. It was about 10" very wet, heavy snow and I'm concerned that it flattened all the OS. Yesterday afternoon was almost continual cracking of Balsam branches giving up the ghost.
Don

[Don Case]

I have dried quite a bit of Hawthorn, OS and Choke cherry.  This is the fastest way I have done it without any checking.  Some of the Hawthorn was 4" the OS was smaller stuff about 1"..

[1] Cut wood in Feb. or March
[2] Seal the ends, leave bark on
[3] Place in Garden shed
[4] Place outside during Summer for about 2 weeks and never had any checking.
[5] Bring inside and hang up near the cieling of garage or inside house
[6] Strip bark near August and seal
[7] Strip bark and shape in September /October

How are determining if the wood(OS) is dry? Do you have a meter or are you weighing it or are you just winging it?

[bow101]

I'am just winging it.  I tried the Poly wrap last year on a piece of OS and it checked allright, like a crevice the size of the grand canyon.  I'll never try that method agian.  As long as its properly sealed and sitting outside in the hot sun it should be ok. 
I forgot to mention after cutting my wood I first burn the ends untill black, then I use a sealer, usually Varathane. The Varathane has never let me down.

This may help you out, its an expensive may to go.......   Never tried it myself.
PEG-1000
PEG-1450

Instruction Sheet

Polyethylene glycol (PEG) is a chemical treatment used on green wood to prevent
warping, cracking and shrinking. PEG is a white waxy substance that is solid
at room temperature. It is non-toxic, non-flammable and soluble in water. No
special safety precautions are required when working with it.
The numbers 1000 and 1450 refer to the average molecular weight of the polymer
chains of PEG. PEG-1000 is supplied in solid blocks and melts at 98° to 103°F
(37° to 39°C). PEG-1450 is supplied in flake form and has a higher melting
temperature, 110° to 115°F (43° to 46°C). Because of the larger molecule size,
PEG-1450 is absorbed more slowly into wood, but will not bleed from wood as
PEG-1000 will in hot, humid conditions.
Choice of Woods
For PEG to be effective, the wood to be treated must be green, with a moisture
content (MC) above 30%. PEG will not restore dry wood to its original dimensions,
nor will it stabilize already dry wood. The higher the moisture content, the more
effective PEG is. Wood at 100% MC treated with PEG will reduce its shrinkage
by 90%. Because of this, it is important to maintain the moisture content of the
wood while working it by keeping it covered with plastic or dampened sawdust.
All woods will behave differently with PEG. Woods most suitable are low to
medium in density, and with a high moisture content. Avoid woods with high
resin or oil content. Listed below are some woods that have been effectively treated
with PEG and some that have proven to be difficult to treat.

TREATABLE WOODS:
Poplar, Walnut, Red Oak, Beech, Pine, Apple
Aspen, Soft Maple, Spruce, Fir, Redwood, Butternut,
Hickory, Elm, Willow

UNTREATABLE WOODS:
Cherry, Hard Maple, White Oak, Tropical Hardwoods

Preparing Woods For Treatment
PEG has a limited penetration into wood no matter how long it is left to soak.
The maximum penetration into exposed end grain is about 2". Penetration into
side grain varies from 1/2" to 1". Green wood should be worked quickly so that
as little moisture as possible is lost from the workpiece. Pieces should be worked to
within 1/4" of its final dimensions before being treated to get the best penetration
and to reduce the amount of PEG lost in shavings in final working.

[vinemaplebows]

Somewhat sounds fimiliar...


"nor will it stabilize already dry wood. The higher the moisture content, the more
effective PEG is. Wood at 100% MC treated with PEG will reduce its shrinkage
by 90%. Because of this, it is important to maintain the moisture content of the
wood while working it by keeping it covered with plastic or dampened sawdust"

VMB

[Bryce]

Jeez guys.

I just dip the ends in glue. Wait a day seal the whole stave with shellac. Wait a year. No checking and the stave is ready. I like to leave the bark on and the handle whole on the finished bow.

[Don Case]

Jeez guys.

I just dip the ends in glue. Wait a day seal the whole stave with shellac. Wait a year. No checking and the stave is ready. I like to leave the bark on and the handle whole on the finished bow.

Yeah, I think so. I want to take the bark off some of them. Couple coats of shellac on the whole thing. I'm beginning to think the year is the key. It's hard when you're just starting out. I've been filling the time gathering stuff, sinew, staves, feathers. Unfortunately there is no knapable rock in the area. I've got some arrow shafts drying so they should be ready to go soon. Impatience is not a virtue

[southsoundjeff]

Jeez guys.

I just dip the ends in glue. Wait a day seal the whole stave with shellac. Wait a year. No checking and the stave is ready. I like to leave the bark on and the handle whole on the finished bow.

All VERY good ideas.....

I forget who asked, but I live in Tacoma, WA...
Most of my OS comes from my folks' place in Sequim, WA..... Going to be my place after I lose the fight to keep the ol geezers breathing.......
But some of it also comes from property south of me about a half hour drive....

I've had good luck like you- sealing 1" sticks- (even 1-1/2" sticks) with glue, and then the whole thing a week or so later. I've used both Elmers school glue, and spar varnish......
But when I get over about that 1-1/2" mark, leaving it whole has been disastrous no matter what I've done. Like a previous comment- it opened up like the grand canyon.....
What I haven't tried yet- is the immersion concept. The old natives maybe thought they were "washing the sap out", but your idea that it evens out the MC throughout the entire piece is probably closer to the truth. There's an irrigation stream on the property, so I might try that with the next big chunk I cut up there....
I am trying to "manage" the supply I have growing, so I don't end up cutting myself out of my stock. Near as I can figure, I have a sustainable supply for probably 10-12 bows a year and several dozen arrow shafts.
Back to the plastic wrap disaster-
I think by wrapping in plastic, I actually sealed all the moisture inside, and it had no way to dry- not even through osmosis....... SO- I won't be trying that again..... I unwrapped them today- all were on the verge of getting moldy- and cut them to the core (except for a really long skinny one, which I merely sliced a slab about 1/3 off), and then wrapped in that old comforter. Slid them back under the bed, and I'll check them again in a couple months.
Previously, on 2"-4" diameters, I've done okay by ripping them through the bandsaw and exposing the core along the whole length. My only bummer about the really big diameter chunks I've had is that they tend to be really short, and then I have to splice at the handle.
Talk about rambling! Sorry everybody.... I'm done... really....

[steve b.]

I guess I still don't get the problem?  Jeff and I described how other than the handle opening up the stave will not check when handled such and such.

My first OS bow was cut in March, by Bryce, and shooting arrows in April.  No set,  I decrowned and rawhide backed it and where the rawhide didn't stick down it lifted a splinter so I set it aside.

I cut some this August, again with Bryce,  and almost immediately made a kids bow from one and again, no set, and no checking.
I made a TD lever bow from two big billets from the same batch and it was complete by the end of the year.  I weighed those floor tillered billets for weeks and they never lost an ounce, every day in the heat box.  No checking.  No set. 

If the widening handle area is making you wait a year then so be it, if that is what you want, but why can't you just fill the void, or splice on the handle, or let the handle bend?

I think other woods are worse, like plum.  I don't understand all the fuss about OS.

[bow101]

As far as the PEG treatment goes,  was just something worth mentioning but then again I know it does not belong in this forum because its not a primitive way to do things.   So for that I apologise.

"cut in March, by Bryce, and shooting arrows in April. "   how in the dickens could it be dry. .?  Will it possibly split down the road..?

 "I don't understand all the fuss about OS."    It is extremely dense compared to most woods, and unusual because its a "deciduous shrub"  and not a tree.

[Don Case]

If the widening handle area is making you wait a year then so be it, if that is what you want, but why can't you just fill the void, or splice on the handle, or let the handle bend?

I plan on filling the void like Rossfactor , http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,44857.0.html
but unlike him I only want to do it once so I want to make sure it's finished moving.
 I would love to run the trunks through the bandsaw and get two staves per trunk but I keep hearing that gluing on a riser doesn't work.
Some bendy handles are in the plan but only for trunks that are roughly 1 1/4" or less.
Don

[Onebowonder]

I'm not entirely certain if it is relevent to the discussion, but I'll share anyway, and invite all who might prefer to ignore as they please   ...

My Grandfather used to make custom tool handles out of hickory.  He made a pretty good bit of side cash doing so.  He also raised pigs.  He would cut his hickory baughs and split staves, and bury them in the mucky and wet part of the hog wallows.  He left them there to 'season' for 1 - 5 years.  (Sorry, I don't recall how long for which type of project, but he was particular about it.)  When he pulled them out he'd hang them up in the top of the barn to finish drying, (...and to air out too I'm sure!), before he made the handles out of them.  He said the hog manure had minerals in it that permiated the wood and made it stronger than if he just used it green. 

I wonder if he wasn't also getting a moderated and controled rate of loss of MC by this method???


OneBow