51" how come / why for bow (60# @ 25" hard maple)

[Traxx]

Rich,
 Im sure your technique works just fine,i read an account by an old elder who described another technique used in the old days.He dictated,that the sapling was roughed out green,and it was tied to a cottonwood tree in the relexed shape,and left to dry and cure.

[JonW]

Rich I appreciate the research you do on these N.A. bows. I have noticed what you are saying in some of the bows I have been making but I wasn't smart enough to know it! I don't want to hijack your post but I do want to show an example of a bow I just made. It has the square or rectangle cross section you mention. 45" long and I have tillered it DOWN to 53# @ 22 inches. It could have easily made 60#. I just say this to show you what you already know.

[half eye]

No highjack at all, sir. But it does confirm my guess that the type is good and not just for one kind of wood either. Notice how profiles come out so similar too. Cool bow by the way. The other thing about the ones Mason picked as examples is only one was decorated all the rest were plain.
rich

[lesken2011]

That is a nice stick, Mr. Rich, Sir. Your expression in that full draw pic looks like you're grunting getting her back. 

[Badly Bent]

Oh yeah, this is sinking into my brain now. If I go to my bow rack and grab my favorite bow that I've made to date it
fits the description of this in a few ways. Its a 57' osage, very rectangular in cross section, 1 3/16" wide at handle with very gentle tapers in width and thickness. Started with 1" setback in handle and last few inches of tips slightly flipped.
Easiest tillering job I ever did and I've always considered it my best tillered bow. It didn't take the set at midlimb though and came out at 57# at 25". String it all day and she'll return to her original unstrung profile almost immediately after unstringing.  Its my go to hunting bow, hardest hitting bow that I've made and got a complete pass thru kill shot on a deer last year with it.

[half eye]

B2, absolutely, I really got to believe that those darned "savages" knew what they were doing. Not just that the bows were strong and reliable, but they got that with the minimum of material and effort. Takes a lot of trial and error to get a design this good and this simple.

Mr Lesken, you bad....ya 60# aint exactly in the old guy's wheel house if ya get my drift

I'm gonna do a little follow up today and see what happens.
rich

[Onebowonder]

<snip>PS: the steam thing is quite easy to do even without steam pots and such. The bow can be wrapped in grass matts, big leaves etc. and then covered over with "grey coals". Steams them real nice and even.

Have you been able to re-produce this?  I've seen it mentioned before, but when I've tried it, I've had VERY poor results.  I charred spots that I certainly did not want to char.  ...AND I got no appreciable steaming effect.  I was working with hickory and not maple, which may make a difference.  ...but the whole steam thru wet leaves with hot coals project was a BIG failure for me.

OneBow

[half eye]

onebow, think your problem was that you used the coals that were still "chunky" and hot burning yet. All you need is the fine hot ash (grey coals) put some on the ground lay the wrapped bow on them and cover with some more....just no burning coals. Ya only need 212 degrees (about) to boil water, especially thin water. The other thing is that it wont "steam" like in a pot, more like moist hot and about 200 degrees.
rich

[Onebowonder]

Well, that may be it.  I made two tries at it and had poor to catastrophic results both times.  ...after which I gave myself permission to make steam the modern way!  I'm glad you've had success with it, but I've not been so lucky!  ...yet. 

OneBow

[scp]

Short bows surely feel fast. But they can be rather slow compared to long bows. Is there any way we can get the actual speed and the calculated kinetic energy (I'm too dumb to do it myself), please?

[Carson (CMB)]

Thanks for responding to my question Rich.  It is probably a false impression I have because when I look at the bows in Mason or Hamm & Allely I remember the bows I think I would like to build and they end up being the longer bows.  I need to open my self up to these shorter bows.

[half eye]

Carson, I think everybody remembers their favorite types, not just you. Although I taught myself to shoot shorter draws (24-25 inches) I still cant shoot the 20" very well at all. My only deal here was trying to get my head wrapped around how come this style was so "universal", if you allow that term. Also "short" or "long" is relative to the shooting style, not to an arbitrary number.

SCP: I hear what your saying, but that isn't where I was or am going. I don't really care if these bows are faster or cast better than a "long bow" (which I am sure they are not). I think you will find a whole bunch of folks on here that could provide you those numbers. It is just not my thing. These bows were proven over time to be the type to aspire to, they killed a lot of large animals and maybe just as many men, so the design is "proven". Like I said my interest lies in exploring what makes it tick. Hope you understand.

rich

[scp]

Hope you understand.

Of course. Even though I prefer long bows (64" to 72"), I have no doubt that short bows (42" to 52") work fine for their intended purposes. I just wanted to make sure that they can be used to kill larger game at least at close range. I'm wondering whether you can routinely make them achieve 40 ft. lbs. My long bows usually get only 30 ft. lbs. Thank you. Cf. http://www.eastonarchery.com/store/kinetic_calculator

[SLIMBOB]

Sweet looking bow Rich as all of yours are.  This one especially so with the interesting topic!

[bowmo]

Wow another really nice (and short!) maple bow. Perhaps I need to give the wood a second look.