rawhide ticking during draw?

[bubbles]

I've got a rawhide backed red oak flatbow,  around 48lb at 26.  Standard flatbow shape. I havnt shot it in a while, and I just took it out of the closet to take some shots with it.  When I went to draw it I heard all sorts of little ticks as if splinters were just popping up everywhere.  I havnt got to 26" yet, but I checked all over and it seems fine. The rawhidewas done with hide glue.  I've heard of sinewed bows doing this, but I'm just wondering if its normal, maybe with the change in humidity or not being shot for a while.

[Pappy]

The hide glue is probably what is doing it.It will creek some if put on pretty thick.
Pappy

[Tom Leemans]

I wonder...can you warm it up and reconstitute the glue and kinda burnish the rawhide back down?

[PatM]

The glue is too brittle. I think a lot of hide glue ends up being made from decayed hide cooked at too high a temperature.

[dwardo]

Must be why all the bows in movies creek when being drawn, who`d of thunk it.

[bubbles]

I used hide glue from lee valley....but...... Upon further inspection (the creaking kept getting worse) there is a spot about mid limb where an edge is lifting - I believe that is the culprit.   I had this bow as a backup on a hunting trip where it rained constantly.  Perhaps it got a bit too moist and started lifting.  My sealing of the bow was not the most thorough.   This was my first rawhide backing job, so I'm not really surprised.  Maybe I'll sand her down and re-do the whole thing. 

[PatM]

There is your trouble. The glue from Lee Valley is the stuff that made me think of the decay situation.
 I backed a bow with sinew using that glue and put rawhide over the top. The glue cracked underneath the rawhide. It's just very poor when it comes to flexing.

[Pat B]

If the backing is good and dry you can rub your fingers along it and if there are voids or bubbles under it, it will make a different sound there. When I find a spot like this I will cut a 1/4" slit lengthwise in the backing over the void and force glue inside and work out any air with my fingers. Bind it with a strip of cloth and let it dry. You could use TBIII for this or hide glue.
  Google "Dick BlicK". It is an art supply catalog. They sell hide glue for oil painters to size their canvases before painting. I have a can of it that Sonny sent me and that is all I've use for my last few sinew backed bows. It is good stuff and pretty cheap too.

[Hamish]

The tick is a warning sign. It might not go today or tomorrow, but at least with the rawhide you should be safe if it blows whilst being drawn. I personally don't risk it when I hear the "tick". I have had  4 or 5 bows blow up at full draw. At least 3 were near misses to my eye, drew blood  and gave me decent cuts.  I 'd hate to think what would happen if they didn't miss the eyes.
The least I would do is put it on a tiller tree with a pulley and exercise until full draw and see if the problem gets worse.

[bubbles]

Yeah, I'm not going to risk it. Ill set it aside for a while and when I feel inspired, ill come back to it and re-back it.  Would it have to do with the bloom strength of the glue? To high equals brittle?

[Hamish]

I don't know about the bloom strength technicalities. I would have thought any decent quality animal glue would be fine, providing the preparation and application were good. If the raw hide has lifted in some point or there were air bubbles/inadequate pressure, that should be easily fixed with a heat gun on low and burnishing until the glue resets. Hide glue is pretty cool because of its reversability. With a heat gun and clamps in spreader mode I have dismantled large furniture carcases dovetailed and joined with the stuff, and then rejoined them.
 I have been told to avoid bone or hoof glue as they supposedly aren't as stong as hide. Gelatine is food grade, high quality hide glue, it has a high turnover at the supermarket would be a good bet for small quantites in the future.

[PatM]

It is not good glue for a situation that requires it to flex as I noted above. I think any bloom strength possibilities are secondary to the fact that it is definitely decayed somewhat before processing.

[bubbles]

Right. This was my first rawhide job, so I'm certain there were errors that I overlooked, however, in the future, perhaps ill use Knox gelatin instead. Thanks for all your input

[Eric Garza]

Ditto pretty much what everyone else said. It's been my experience that most all commercial hide glues are cooked at too high of a temperature, and are of inferior quality. I actually save sinew scraps (you could save rawhide scraps too) and make glue as needed, making sure the water in which the scraps are being soaked never gets too hot. I've found this yields superior glue, whether from hide or sinew.

I think it's also true that many people (including myself in the past) put too much glue in their sinew or rawhide backings, which also contributes to the 'ticking' problem. Pat M posted not too long ago about how to reduce the amount of glue in sinew backings, although a quick search couldn't find that thread so maybe someone else will have better luck. That's a good method, and I use a variant of it now.