Author Topic: How did "primitives" tiller?  (Read 11686 times)

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Offline Tom Leemans

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2013, 12:22:11 pm »
I would assume they accomplished the same "process" with the tools of their time. You know, I've heard the first tillering gizmo, invented by Krog's son, which eventually became "Krewson", was a stick with a hole in it, with another pointed, charred, stick pushed through the hole. The toughest part though was Dean Torges trying to get them to understand what a "facet" was.  ;D

Yeah, I'm in a silly mood today.

Offline TimBo

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2013, 03:29:19 pm »
So many inside jokes...heh.

Don Case

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2013, 03:59:58 pm »
After watching Jackcrafty scrape arrows with a chert chip and seeing Hillbillies "tree" I can't see any reason why they didn't do it exactly like us, and in the same time frame once they got it roughed out. I know they did it better than me because their bows actually provided meat.

Offline Bryce

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2013, 04:04:50 pm »
I'll sometime draw the bow ishi style while tillering. Very effective. If I'm unsure I'll but it on the pulley.
Clatskanie, Oregon

Offline Jodocus

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2013, 04:09:33 pm »
The same way me and my friends do when we gather. The builder pulls the bow to a draw length and all his buddy's look at it and a decision is made based on what we all see. That is 10x more effective than any tree or single set of eyes and my best tillered bows came from our gatherings.

I'm sure that's it.
Don't shoot!

Offline wood_bandit 99

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2013, 10:26:05 pm »
We should have people reenact it. Just stick a bunch of kids in the woods for a couple months with some basic knowledge how to build a bow and see what they come up with. :laugh: I bet it would be pretty close to what they did.


And it would be called child abuse ::) but nobody would have to know ;)
"Judge a man by his questions, not his answers" ~Anonymous

   "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." ~Chinese Proverb

Offline DuBois

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2013, 10:32:49 pm »
Lot of cool insights. I never have met another person who makes bows that I know of and other than the community of this forum, hadn't thought of it as a community project. I now see it must have been a center of many societies or at least brought the community together for a common cause.
Really cool seeing the guys there in the pics together building a bow as a group. Must have been a great time and learning experience.

Thank you, Marco DuBois.

Offline Bryce

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #37 on: December 11, 2013, 10:36:33 pm »
John Strunk doesn't use a tillering tree or pulleys.
Sets it in the vise and pulls on it, along with constantly running his fingers up and down the limbs to check the thickness.
Clatskanie, Oregon

Offline bbell

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2013, 01:58:32 am »
I got the privilege to do a 2 day one on one class with Mr. Strunk building a yew flatbow like in TBB 1. I can't remember how many times he had me run my fingers down the bow. Then I would draw it and he would see where it needed work then he would draw and I would look. It was an awesome 2 days and great way to start my bow making journey.
Brandon

Offline wapiti1997

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2013, 02:22:30 pm »
Is it possible to tiller a bow without repeatedly running your fingers down the limbs? Not for me, but I'm just a newbie...

The lone bowyer probably checked tiller by looking at the shadow on a stretched hide.  If your life depended on it, you'd certainly make a good bow!

Offline Del the cat

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2013, 03:09:35 pm »
Is it possible to tiller a bow without repeatedly running your fingers down the limbs? Not for me, but I'm just a newbie...

The lone bowyer probably checked tiller by looking at the shadow on a stretched hide.  If your life depended on it, you'd certainly make a good bow!
No, you can't actually tiller it, you need rasps, spokeshave, scrapers etc :laugh:, BUT you can feel if you have an even thickness taper, you can feel dips and bumps easier than you can see them. Gotta use all your senses. You can also feel if one edge of the bow is thicker than the other.
Del
Health warning, these posts may contain traces of nut.

Offline wood_bandit 99

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2013, 08:06:00 pm »
You can also feel if one edge of the bow is thicker than the other.
Del

That was my biggest issue for awhile. I couldn't ever get it square it was always off. Until I learned this!
"Judge a man by his questions, not his answers" ~Anonymous

   "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." ~Chinese Proverb

Offline randman

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #42 on: December 12, 2013, 10:40:02 pm »
I always hold the limb up to the light or in front of a window where I can see the thickness in silhouette. I can always tell by looking where the thick spots are and whether I have a consistent thickness taper. I can tell where it's going to be stiff by looking at the thickness.
That combined with reading the grain on the belly side. If you have a thick spot outboard of thinner area it will show up as an island of grain. That even counts through roller coasters and twists. If you follow the back, thickness wise, the ring lines on the sides of the belly will be straighter (more parallel to each other) if thickness is consistent. If you see the ring lines wave in and out, you've got thick and thin spots.  That also counts on side to side thickness. If the points of the ring lines are all off to one side, the limb is thicker on one side (in general there are exceptions to that). In general, to have a consistent thickness taper (and side to side width) all the growth rings have to come to a point consecutively and centered on the belly all the way towards the tip. Kind of like chasing rings on the belly side only you want to cut through more and more rings as you get toward the tip. Of course that's not to say you couldn't intentionally make a limb thicker on one side to make it bend a certain way but that would also involve reading the grain and using what it's telling you. I'm finding if I get to floor tiller first while perfecting my taper properly I'm 97% there before I even put a string on it. Once I have it braced and see how it looks braced, I can refine it further by looking at my reflection in the shop window as I pull and exercise it by hand so I can feel the pull. I'm finding I use my tree to weigh the pull mostly these days.
Having said all that, the grain trick only works on a limb or stave. If it's a quartersawn board, the grain is going to look the same all the way down the limb so eyeing the thickness (and using the "feel the taper" method) is the way to go.
Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

Offline Badger

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2013, 11:33:48 pm »
 Randman, I do it the same way, I actually chase one ring on the belly and then start putting in my tapers.

Offline wood_bandit 99

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Re: How did "primitives" tiller?
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2013, 12:18:24 am »
Randman, I do it the same way, I actually chase one ring on the belly and then start putting in my tapers.

+1
"Judge a man by his questions, not his answers" ~Anonymous

   "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person who is doing it." ~Chinese Proverb