tiller method?

[scp]

I usually start with 72" long staves to make 66" long stiff handle bows. I don't shorten the stave until I can "short" string it and even shoot it for a while. I also don't worry about set. If it bothers me too much, I can always "flip" the tips or reflex the bow with heat. I also leave the stiff handle area quite long, say about 12". If necessary, I can shorten the handle to adjust the tiller that went horribly wrong. I can "cheat" like this because I only try to make shootable bows, for now.

[mikekeswick]

I usually start with 72" long staves to make 66" long stiff handle bows. I don't shorten the stave until I can "short" string it and even shoot it for a while. I also don't worry about set. If it bothers me too much, I can always "flip" the tips or reflex the bow with heat. I also leave the stiff handle area quite long, say about 12". If necessary, I can shorten the handle to adjust the tiller that went horribly wrong. I can "cheat" like this because I only try to make shootable bows, for now.

All the things there allow you to mess up and then maybe still get away with it. None of them are good ideas if you ask me...it's like setting out knowing you are going to fail and also way more work than is needed.
If you can't tiller without using all these measures I would suggest starting out with a definate length in mind, cut your stave to this length and just go slowly until you don't mess them up anymore. 
The tiller of a bow doesn't just 'go horribly wrong'.....you remove too much wood or leave an area too stiff. It doesn't 'just happen'. 

[Slackbunny]

I usually start with 72" long staves to make 66" long stiff handle bows. I don't shorten the stave until I can "short" string it and even shoot it for a while. I also don't worry about set. If it bothers me too much, I can always "flip" the tips or reflex the bow with heat. I also leave the stiff handle area quite long, say about 12". If necessary, I can shorten the handle to adjust the tiller that went horribly wrong. I can "cheat" like this because I only try to make shootable bows, for now.

12 inches is a massive stiff handle for a self bow. You are losing several inches of limb that could be bending without gaining any real benefit.

[scp]

I'm my only customer. Therefore I just do whatever I want with a stave at the moment. I tend to prefer rather long bows with a "massive" handle. More often than not I just keep them 72" long. Hence most are just shootable but unfinished bows. There are some benefits for long handles especially if you mainly shoot at targets. My tricks are not for any serious craftmen. They are for the beginners who are very much anxious to have a shottable bow with limited time and skills. I might even start to sell my shootable "staves" for $20 each.

[Marks]

I consider this the ultimate beginner board buildalong. Maybe it will help you.
http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,37695.msg499029.html#msg499029

[Tom Leemans]

We all learn by getting bows under our belt and listening to the voice of experience. Read all you can get your hands on. The process never really changes much. You just get faster at it. There's a few basic rules though. Here's what helped me.
Grain and ring orientation are two very important things. Each wood species is different. Read all you can about them.
Never pull past the intended draw weight during the tillering process.
Keep the limb tips on the stiff side. You can get them to move later if you want.
Make a tillering gizmo, until you develop an eye for tiller, then keep using it because it's a great tool!
Faceted tillering is a more predictable process.
Excercise the limbs without overpowering them. You don't have to max them out to register change.
Perfect tiller isn't just a pretty arc. It also means that the limb tips arrive home in unison.
Don't hurry. Speed will come. You'll find yourself starting out with less material on the limbs when you begin tillering.
Sandpaper is a good tillering tool too. It has a side benefit of giving the finishing process a head start.

[Bryce]

The way I've been able to get the least amount of set is using badgers 'no set tillering' method
Now woods that are likely to take set will. That's the nature of the game. But this method helps you detect the set as soon as possible, and then you can deal with the problem right away. It took me awhile to understand the process but once you get it down it becomes part of your tillering technique.

This is my method.
1. Try to nail the thickness taper on the bandsaw. And running my fingers along the limbs and taking out all the high spots and leaving the low spots alone to get a nice taper.
2. Floor tiller about 4" of tip movement (takes awhile to get a good eye for that)
3. Put on long string(sting just long enough to reach end to end)
And pull 2" at a time, teaching the wood to bend early on. Always sanding and removing tool marks after EVERY wood removal.
4. Brace, make the brace profile as perfect as possible.
using the no set tillering method all the way to full draw. I pull 5# above desired weight that way I have a little room to finess the tiller if need be.

Here is the link. Took me a couple reads to 'sort of get it'
But on e I talked to weylin and Carson it all became clear. And I'm sure steve wouldn't mind if you asked questions about it either.

http://www.primitivearcher.com/smf/index.php/topic,17294.0.html

[George Tsoukalas]

Grain, grain, and grain are the 3 most important things for board bows. Willie, I humbly ask that you check out my site and check my last post again. Jawge
http://georgeandjoni.home.comcast.net/~georgeandjoni/index.html

[scp]

All very nice heuristic rules. A lot would depend on your level of skill and commitment. For record seekers, most of the rules are not good enough. They would try to refine them and also spend a lot of time trying to find the perfect stave. For expert bowyers, most of the rules are followed almost by instinct. I suspect they would also spend a lot of time and money for good staves. For amateur tinkerers like me, what matters most is the design and probably not execution. I can make a shootable oak selfbow in twenty minutes with a bandsaw. Most of them would shoot 150FPS without any problem and that is usually good enough for hunting. I guess all depends on why you bother to tiller a bow for yourself. I mainly do so for exercise. With a straight stave and a block plane, I just whittle wood till it bends enough to shoot an arrow. Just one rule -- long strokes. No matter what you do, enjoy.

[willie]

George

I have read quite a bit at your site, and find it nice to be able to go there and have one place to go to get the info one needs. Sometimes looking through forums can get you going the wrong way, as it may be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff.
I also checked your previous post, and I guess I am not sure if it is a response to my post directly above it, or the opening post.

willie

[Don Case]

This is not aimed at Jawge. I would not, especially on the internet, take what you find from one source to be gospel. If you see it on 2 or 3 sites and they are not duplicates of one another you're probably OK. Just because someone can operate a video camera does not make him an expert boyer. Now Jawge deserves respect, after all he has the respect of all the people on here. Take a hard look at where you're getting your info from. But you probably know all this.
Don

[willie]

Tom
thanks for the helpful tips. I will have to try to facet more, as I have not been doing that and I did not know that I do not need to max out the bow when exercising.

You'll find yourself starting out with less material on the limbs when you begin tillering

This is my goal, as I have read that some guys can bring a bow to brace height , and just about be done. It seems that all the bow torturing that happens by starting to thick, can be avoided.
thanks
willie

[willie]

Bryce
your explanation gives me some pointers that I have not heard before. Thanks


But on the other hand,

Try to nail the thickness taper on the bandsaw.

Floor tiller about 4" of tip movement

Brace, make the brace profile as perfect as possible.

These parts of the process are more like goals to me than instructions, but of course you mentioned that.....

(takes awhile to get a good eye for that)

so opened this thread with the intention of learning more about how that is done.

Perhaps I can ask my question another way.

If I have my bow bending about 6" on the tiller tree, what should I be seeing and feeling so that I do not have to overwork it inch by inch to final draw length?

willie

[dwardo]

A great saying that helped early on was "The sooner it starts looking like a bow, the quicker it will start acting like one"
Thickness taper is key. One thin spot and the stress will start to show quickly. When you notice this then the rest of the bow has to fall in line with that one spot, no way to ignore it, just accept it and adjust your expectations accordingly. This is why it helps to make it look like a bow early on. No tool marks or places that problems can hide.

[bow101]

When I get to 14" or so of draw length I start checking my max draw weight and only draw to that weight until tillering is complete.

  That one quote is probably the best I've heard about tillering so far. To the point and precise.

Very good Pat....