Trade point success??

[Titan_Bow]

 I would like to hear/see about trade point successes.  I am going to be going on a pig hunt soon and wanted to make my own points.  I've noticed some points that look to me that they would likely fail when encountering bone.  I'm wandering if there are some good rules-of-thumb here.   The design I have in my head is slightly wide, say like a Magnus 1 (2.5" long by 1.5" wide). I thought it a good idea to taper the shaft and let this taper come up the blade to create almost a ferule with the taper of the shaft.  If I do this, whats the best way to lash it on?  I remember seeing trade points for sale that had a series of holes to allow you to lash them on.  Is this the best way?   OK, I'll stop rambling now, but if you have any feedback, realworld experience or pics to post, its greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Titan

[welch2]

I cut notches on the sides of the tang with a chain saw file ,after dry fitting in the cut out end of the shaft.Then I cut matching notches in the shaft for the sinew to grip.







Ralph

[Minuteman]

Ralph's design is a fine one. The only thing I'd do diffferently is to notch the shaft more to allow the wood to come up closer to the tip of the trade point. That'll help keep it stiff if it does encounter anything harder than a rib.
 I'd go at least half way up then taper the wood.
 I do mine that way and don't even use a tang at all.

[Titan_Bow]

Thanks for the feedback so far.  Although not to scale, these were the designs I have thought about.  I thought it a good idea to extend the shaft up closer to the tip, but my question now becomes, does it need to glued or epoxied?  If so, what is the best adhesive?  Alternatively, I was thinking about drilling a series of holes on either side of the shaft and using sinew to attach it.  Has anyone used this method to attach points?  Are there any drawbacks I should be aware of?  Here are some pics I made up  to illustrate:

[welch2]

Yes you need to glue them in .I use pine tar and charcoal ,and hide glue and sinew.

Steel is stronger than wood. If your points are thick enough in the first place ,it takes a lot to bend them.   I use 16 guage hot rolled steel for my points ( thicker than that sometimes  ) they weigh in a little over 200 grains each. they hold up pretty good.

What kinda metal are you planning on using?

Ralph

[Pappy]

I use 50 1000  thick band saw blades to make mine.I just put slots at the bottom.I wouldn't
mind drilling the holes to attach it but it is hard to drill because of the temper in the blade.These are about 150 grains but you can fool around with the size just a little and get the weight up or down to what ever you want fairly easy.
   Pappy


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[madcrow]

I use the 7 1/4" saw blades for these.  I heat them up bright red to take the temper out for drilling the holes and bevel the edges, then heat terat and temper them back to about RC 50 - 55.  The bigger the holes, the more likely they will bend.

[Auggie]

What do you qwench them in,what kind of oil?

[madcrow]

I heat treat to about 1500 degrees F, quench in cooking oil and temper at around 550 for 1 hour.  After I quench, I wipe the metal down with paper towels, otherwise, while they are in they oven, the layer of oil turns black and is very sticky.  It is a pain to get off.

[Auggie]

My grandfather used to keep a bucket of old oil and put all his filings into it,said it helped the metal in the process of heat treat.Always wondered about that.

[madcrow]

I have got 5 gallons of old motor oil, it will work too.  The bigger teh project, the more likely it will flame up.

[Auggie]

Learned that one the hard way my self.

[Titan_Bow]

So if I use old circular saw blades, is it a necessary step to heat them to take out the temper?   What are the drawbacks if you bypass this step?  If it is absolutely necessary, what equipment do you use to heat to 1500 degrees?  Would a handheld torchfrom the local hardware store be sufficient?

Thanks,
Titan_Bow

[madcrow]

Most of the blades are too hard to bore through.  I have ruined some expensive bits trying it.  You have to remove the temper in order to do that.  You can use a small map torch to remove the temper.  To heat treat, I lay them on one of the large burners on the kitchen stove and turn it on high.  The burner is not hot enough by itself, so I use the torch while they are on the burner to get them red.  Once they turn red, I touch a magnet to them.  If the magnet sticks, they are not ready, but if it does not stick, I know that i have the temperature around 1500.  I try to hold the temp for about a minute to ensure an even heat treat.  Then I quench in regular cooking oil that is about 135 degrees for 1 minutes, wipe them down and throw them in the oven on a cookie sheet at 500 - 550 for one hour.  Oh yeah, cover the cookie sheet with aluminum foil before you start so you don't leave arrowhead shaped spots on it.