Term "At the fades."

[SamIAm]

Been wanting to ask someone this but didn't want to hijack someone's string.  When the term "at the fades" is used, as in "1.5 inch at the fades," are we referring to the point where the handle ends and the fadeout begins?  Thanks.

[Joec123able]

Yes the fade is just the smooth transition from handle to limb.

[bushboy]

This is how I understand it.

[Blaflair2]

This is how I understand it.

+1

[Dances with squirrels]

No. The "fade" is another word for the "dips" and is viewd from the side, where the handle 'dips' or 'fades' into working limb thickness. 'Fade' is derived from the term fadeouts, used to describe the same area on glass bows... where the riser block 'fades out' to nothing. Most wooden bowyers I know call this area on their bows the dips... short for Buchanan Dips... named after James Buchanan.

People often confuse 'fade' with 'flare'. Flare describes where the narrowed handle area 'flares' to full limb width.... which is shown in the drawing above.

Fade.... in thickness.

Flare.... in width.

Hope this helps.

[bubby]

squirrel I think you will find most of the time on this site when someone is explaining the layout of the bow, they will say 4" handle, meaning length, 2" fades , meaning width, 1/2" tips, I just used this as an example but when talking profile this is how it usually comes out, you know it also fades into the grip area, bub

[PatM]

Unfortunately that's not the commonly viewed opinion. The term "flare" is almost never used unless someone says that their bow" flares out to 2 inches at the fades".
 The term fades does note the transition from non-working to working limb. The line gets a bit blurred by bows which may work into the length of the fades despite a narrowing of width.

[SamIAm]

Thanks....I got it.

[bushboy]

To be a little clearer , your fade distanc is measured from your handle.the width varies from wood species.

[Dances with squirrels]

I know how it is used by a few folks, and I've always thought such usage incorrect, confusing, and potentially detrimental, especially for those early in their efforts, but I didn't often correct anyone prior to this because I could 'usually' figure out what they meant by the context of their statement. But this time, somebody actually asked :^)

Actually, I don't like to hear the word 'fade'(out) used on wooden bows at all.... regardless of whether it's being used to describe thickness OR width. I don't use it. It is too often used incorrectly which invariably adds to confusion. When we instruct or converse with GLASS bow builders, 'fadeout' or 'fade' is used to describe the end of the riser... where its thickness 'fades' out to nothing. When it's wooden bows we're building, the narrowed, deep, rigid handle 'flares' out into full limb width, and then 'dips' into working limb thickness just beyond. If the term 'fade' MUST be used to describe a part of a wooden bow, doesn't it make more sense to maintain continuity with the original term... as in 'fadeout'... which describes thickness?

A bow's fades/dips should be beyond its flares. The terms aren't synonymous because they mean very different things, and they're not in the same place. In fact their orientation to one another is vital. Make them the same thing at the same place and the odds of the bow breaking just skyrocketed... which we've seen numerous times. My bows commonly dip/fade into working limb thickness 1 1/2 - 2" beyond the flare of full limb width. Some bows have the dips/fades 3-4" beyond the flares.

Perhaps confusion in terminology leads to confusion in design... which may have something to do with why so many bows break right there.

[CPLSeraphim]

Thanks for asking this question, SamIAm, as it was something that I couldn't be sure of either. And Thanks for your in depth explanation Dances with Squirrels. Very interesting

[PatM]

DWS, You may think that your bow doesn't start working until it's further out on the limbs but rest assured it actually works much closer to the handle.
 A bow can very easily work right back to that widest point quite safely. It should just be very subtle.
 The mechanics of both bows are the same and a glass bow also works back into that fadeout area.
 It's actually very easy to test this with a straightedge placed along the back of a bow that you think doesn't start working until further out on the limbs.

[bushboy]

Yes I agree that the term "fade is used and miss used".most folk on here say it's 1-1/2" @ the fades meaning width(flare) and sometimes in the layout of the handle .ex. 4" handle,1-1/2" fades equals a 7" stiff handled bow.now add a riser and the confusion multiplies!for a self bow I want as much of the limb working as possible to keep the lenght to a minimum ex(bend in the handle).using modern materials the lenght of the working limb can be reduced signifcantly and long risers can be added without ill effect.hope this makes sense.

[Dances with squirrels]

Yes Pat I realize a bow can be tillered to work either into the dips and flares... even through the entire handle.., or tillered to keep the bend outside the dips. I've done it both ways... and degrees of 'in between'. Working the limb into near-handle requires finess in any type of bow and the limbs must be precisely timed to ward off handshock in such designs.

[Dances with squirrels]

By the way Pat, I was thinking more 'dimensionally' in my previous post.