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Author Topic: Vine Maple rules of thumb  (Read 9592 times)

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Offline JW_Halverson

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Vine Maple rules of thumb
« on: September 08, 2013, 04:54:20 pm »
I have a number of VM staves now and I was wondering if those of you that have more extensive experience with it might want to post your "rules of thumb" for working it. 

I hate to rely on my memory for things like this, which is why I want a thread to document it.  This also might be the start of a nice series of threads for new bowyers.  I also understand that there will be debate on the issue and that "your mileage may vary". 

What style bows do you think it lends itself to making?
How does it respond to heat?
Can it stand decrowning without backing?
Do you find trapping the back or belly helps?
What pitfalls does this wood hold?
Is it really the Osage Orange of whitewoods?
...and anything else that comes to your minds!

If this thread yields the wisdom I think is out there, I can distill it and modify the initial post with the best of it so someone doesn't have to read 12 pages to get their answers. 
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Offline steve b.

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2013, 05:09:24 pm »
I've made a few bows from it, and I have messed with heat bending, twisting, recurving, trapping, etc.
I always use the older, knarly staves and those have their problems that limit performance but look cool to me.  I've seen your staves and I think yours are more ideal.
Still, VM is not osage, in general, although some staves are better than others.  Oceanspray, on the other hand, is another story.

In general I would keep the dimensions somewhere between osage and hickory. 
I would not violate the back without backing.
Responds to corrections well but sometimes fights you.
Responds to trapping and heat treating.
Make sure its dry.

I'm looking forward to seeing how your bow(s) come out.
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Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2013, 05:25:12 pm »
Quote from: steve b. on September 08, 2013, 05:09:24 pm
I've made a few bows from it, and I have messed with heat bending, twisting, recurving, trapping, etc.
I always use the older, knarly staves and those have their problems that limit performance but look cool to me.  I've seen your staves and I think yours are more ideal.
Still, VM is not osage, in general, although some staves are better than others.  Oceanspray, on the other hand, is another story.

In general I would keep the dimensions somewhere between osage and hickory. 
I would not violate the back without backing.
Responds to corrections well but sometimes fights you.
Responds to trapping and heat treating.
Make sure its dry.

I'm looking forward to seeing how your bow(s) come out.

Can you clarify?  Does it respond to trapping the back or the belly?
« Last Edit: September 08, 2013, 05:29:03 pm by JW_Halverson »
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Offline sonny

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2013, 05:48:11 pm »
JW..I hope you don't mind me throwing out one more question-

what tools do you use for working it ?? It seems I've read in the past that it doesn't like a drawknife or
vice versa... 
and I have a set of already spliced billets waiting in the corner...
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2013, 05:50:03 pm »
Here is my favorite demensions for a VM bow.
Stiff 4" handle Flatbow
60-62"ntn
1 5/8" wide. 14 1/2" from center on each limb.
Then taper to 7/16".
VM will wanna take a little set. I heat treat the crap out of it and it works pretty well.
90% of my VM bows have violated backs and grain runoff. 0% of them have broken or lifted a splinter.
If you want I can post a drawing or something.
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Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2013, 06:07:00 pm »
Feel free to post a drawing, Bryce, for folks like me that can't read.

Sonny, I have more tools than Carter has liver pills.  Many of them see very little use, but each has a use and a value.  I've found that I don't like using a draw knife on most white woods, but that's probably just me. 
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2013, 06:27:47 pm »
Can always make it a couple inches longer too



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Clatskanie, Oregon

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2013, 06:35:10 pm »
Quote from: Bryce (Pinecone) on September 08, 2013, 06:27:47 pm
Can always make it a couple inches longer too





Can I ask why you chose to go with 2 1/2 inch fades?
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Offline Bryce

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2013, 06:38:27 pm »
That's just how I do it :) being only 60" long the fades do some workin.
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Clatskanie, Oregon

Offline JW_Halverson

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2013, 06:40:44 pm »
Alright, good information.
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Offline steve b.

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2013, 08:02:39 pm »
Trap the back.  Its tensions strong.  Not as unbalanced as some woods so I lightly trap, in general, but you should bend test to know what you have.

Here's one that was a full sized bow but I had to cut the tips off because steam corrections showed flaws in the swirling wood.  You can see how this old growth piece has a knarly, flat back with lumps and bumps--my favorite.  I'll make an ambush bow from this. But I trapped this one.

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Offline burn em up chuck

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2013, 08:12:02 pm »
   i have nothing to contribute but joy for whats happening on this thread. thank you for starting it, i hope more people chime in.

                                                                                         chuck
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Don Case

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2013, 08:25:25 pm »
Great idea JW. I like the drawing Bryce. Would it be feasible to make a "one size fits all" drawing with letters in each dimension. Then people could contribute their dimensions like A=1.5" B=65" etc.
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Offline Carson (CMB)

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2013, 11:43:33 pm »
For correcting or bending I have had great results with boiling or steam. 
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Offline Gus

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Re: Vine Maple rules of thumb
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2013, 01:25:12 am »
Cool Thread...

Vine Maple is on me To Do list.

-gus
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