Author Topic: How much is too much?  (Read 1509 times)

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Offline Frode

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How much is too much?
« on: September 04, 2013, 09:38:46 pm »
Hi folks,
I haven't had much to post of late, but I have a question...
I'm working on a hickory backed elm, the owner wants 40-45#@28".  I've glued in some reflex, and somehow ended up with a whopping 4" worth!  Whopping for me, as in the past I've never been able to glue in more than about 2"
The specs; 66" long (will be about 64-65 ntn), 1" wide at the handle and tapering from there.  the hickory is about 1/8" thick in the center and thins slightly at the ends.  It looks rough yet as I'm still floor tillering, and am just about to put the long string on.
Is that too much reflex?  Is there too much reflex?
Thanks in advance,
Frode

If it doesn't rap the lintel, it might not be a longbow.

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2013, 10:01:09 pm »
Eh, if the elm can take the compression, and the hickory is good tension strong hickory, I say it is fine, and should make a great bow! I've made quite a few bows from staves with that much reflex, in different designs and weights. It really depends on the quality of the wood and the design/weight/draw length. In one circumstance, 4" reflex might be fine, in another one though, it might be a recipe for disaster. I mean, 4" is a lot of reflex as rule really, but I think you can pull it off. A good seasoned, good quality osage stave with that much reflex can be wicked, not wanting to give up any set. Those staves can be a trip to tiller! But with your specs and target weight, if the elm is good solid stuff, you should end up with a nice bow with around 2" reflex or so maybe. I haven't worked much elm, but if the bellywood was a softer wood like maple, you might end up with some set. But even so, I find when you glue in that much reflex, the backing typically will want to hold the bow into reflex, even if the belly wood is not that strong in compression. For example, I glued up a bamboo/purple heart/jatoba trilam elb recently. The jatoba ended up chrysalling horribly, before I could even string it I think. (Never using jatoba again for belly wood, never again) I was chasing hinge after hinge after hinge trying to tiller this bow. But, because I glued in darn near 2 1/2" reflex, the bow still held almost all 2 1/2" of it. Reflexed bamboo bows are good for that I find. It's best to tiller these carefully though, making sure you longsting tiller is good to go and bracing it higher than normal for first brace, preferably full brace, as long as you are sure you nailed the longstring tiller as much as you dare without whipping the tips. Reason being, is that they can want to flip on you at a low brace.
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Frode

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Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2013, 10:11:42 pm »
Thanks!
I was kind of wondering about it wanting to flip, I'll go carefully there, heh!
The elm is as close to quartersawn as I've yet run across, quite straight grained, and so is the hickory, so, given your comments, I'm more hopeful!  I've counselled the owner that this one might take a while to get!  I'm in no hurry to blow it up, heheh.
Thanks again,
Frode
If it doesn't rap the lintel, it might not be a longbow.

Offline toomanyknots

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Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2013, 10:21:10 pm »
Thanks!
I was kind of wondering about it wanting to flip, I'll go carefully there, heh!
The elm is as close to quartersawn as I've yet run across, quite straight grained, and so is the hickory, so, given your comments, I'm more hopeful!  I've counselled the owner that this one might take a while to get!  I'm in no hurry to blow it up, heheh.
Thanks again,
Frode

Hickory is good strong stuff, I would not worry too much about the hickory. I would worry more about the elm taking the compression. Just go slow and make sure you don't let any hinges get by you. :) I hope it turns out awesome.
"The way of heaven is like the bending of a bow-
 the upper part is pressed down,
 the lower part is raised up,
 the part that has too much is reduced,
 the part that has too little is increased."

- Tao Te Ching, 77, A new translation by Victor H. Mair

Offline Danzn Bar

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Re: How much is too much?
« Reply #4 on: September 04, 2013, 10:29:48 pm »
I had an osage stave a few bows ago with a lot of natural reflex in it.......... Pearl and company said that there's no such thing "as too much reflex".  I stuck with it and learned a lot.  had a hell of a time stringing it to the short string. I shorten the bow a little so I could use the long string to get it to brace.  After I tillered it out I cut the tips down.  They might have been right............ here's what I ended up with.

Thanks again for the encouragement Pearl, Badger and others.
DBar

Integrity is doing the right thing when no one is looking