Ring porous hackberry???

[toomanyknots]

@ tmk...No big deal man    ...when I think of "tight ringed", I think of like the picture on page 26 in tbb1 where the rings are so small its hard to distinguish them and all you really see is early wood..and that's because it is basically 80+% early wood...I'm sure the ratio of what you used was/is much better....and I don't disagree with anything your saying cus were saying the same thing my experiences with most all porous wood is the same...its all about ratio...and I design accordingly,and you can still make good bows with even poor ratio wood 

  It figures, me of all people would be the one to try to get into an argument with someone saying the same thing, lol. As a curious note, most of the better hackberry bow wood I have cut and better bow wood in general I have cut up in a hilly area over looking my little town of hamilton called "the nob", steve from middletown on here might know where I am talking about if he's familiar with hamilton. (neighboring citys). I'm thinking the hills have most of the water drain and run off so they grow slower with thinner rings. The lesser quality bow wood I  have cut has come mostly from an area that gets all the run off from a road above it, and has a lot of wet areas where water just sits after a rain.

[JW_Halverson]

I guess this wood will tell me if the bow style I picked for it will work or not.  After all, I do not have enough experience to make a bow that is contrary to the properties of the particular wood at hand. 

In this case, it will be a bend thru the handle, 55" long for a 26" draw, hoping for about 50+ lbs of draw.  It's an inch and a quarter at the handle tapering down to 5/8th in tips.  The back is flawless, I really took my time taking off the dried on bark.  But I may back with rawhide because I can get rawhide to take a dark stain to stand out against the very pale wood. 

Nothing left to do but finish it now.  It is what it is!  But I am taking a page off Del the Cat's bowyers diary and I am gonna put on safety glasses and a helmet when I start getting close to full tiller on the tillering tree!  Might even see if I can borrow a baseball umpire's vest and facemask, hehe!

[blackhawk]

If the rings are similar to what I described as "tight ringed",then rawhide would be a very wise idea for your design...I have had three hackberrys with such described rings(all three unbacked),and all either broke across the back in tension or lifted a splinter...its brittle wood if they are as I described to tmk.....the problem is its majority early wood,and also with such  small almost indistinguishable  rings and poor ratio there isn't enough meat in the first back ring to use safely as an unbacked bow in most shorter or higher stressed designs....now I'm sure you could leave it unbacked if it was looooong and no where near being super stressed

[JW_Halverson]

Just realized while I was working on this ?hackberry? that it doesn't smell like hackberry.  People describe it differently, but it reminds me of popcorn.  This don't smell like anything. 

[toomanyknots]

Just realized while I was working on this ?hackberry? that it doesn't smell like hackberry.  People describe it differently, but it reminds me of popcorn.  This don't smell like anything.

You mean when your heating it? I think it smells delicious when you heat it! Although when it's freshly cut, and the bark is peeling off, I think it smells sort of like piss... lol But when it gets heated, I think it smells almost as good as hickory.... almost....

[Joec123able]

If the rings are similar to what I described as "tight ringed",then rawhide would be a very wise idea for your design...I have had three hackberrys with such described rings(all three unbacked),and all either broke across the back in tension or lifted a splinter...its brittle wood if they are as I described to tmk.....the problem is its majority early wood,and also with such  small almost indistinguishable  rings and poor ratio there isn't enough meat in the first back ring to use safely as an unbacked bow in most shorter or higher stressed designs....now I'm sure you could leave it unbacked if it was looooong and no where near being super stressed

Hackberry brittle ?? I've never had brittle hackberry usually you can take and fold it and it will not break under tension but all of mine is large ringed and with little early growth so I guess thts why

[toomanyknots]

If the rings are similar to what I described as "tight ringed",then rawhide would be a very wise idea for your design...I have had three hackberrys with such described rings(all three unbacked),and all either broke across the back in tension or lifted a splinter...its brittle wood if they are as I described to tmk.....the problem is its majority early wood,and also with such  small almost indistinguishable  rings and poor ratio there isn't enough meat in the first back ring to use safely as an unbacked bow in most shorter or higher stressed designs....now I'm sure you could leave it unbacked if it was looooong and no where near being super stressed

Same here, stuff is great in tension for me.

Hackberry brittle ?? I've never had brittle hackberry usually you can take and fold it and it will not break under tension but all of mine is large ringed and with little early growth so I guess thts why

[blackhawk]

Yup...the explanation is easy.  You both had decent enough ratio wood that didn't have 1/64" rings . In general any porous wood that has that size rings plus a poor ratio is going to be low grade wood for that species whatever it is. With rings as small as I mentioned WITH poor ratio needs to be designed longer and wider...if you don't it will have a high probability of breaking in tension because the early wood is so close to the back ring that at times it can be "brittle" aka weak in tension even if it is a tension strong wood...I think hickory might be the best rule breaker in this,but I've still had crappy hickory with the same poor ratio break in tension...

Jw...just what did ya cut? Does it have porous wood? I know you do t have a lot of maple up there,but I've seen young maples grows warts and look very similar to hackberry..and maple is diffuse porous..meaning no early porous wood...

Confused in Pa 

[JW_Halverson]

This wood was sent to me from Minnesota.  The bark was still on it and was classic hackberry, with lines of those warts running up and down the trunk. 

Beats the heck outa me!  Fairly weighty stuff, so I am hoping I might have a abow outa this stave, yet.

[Danzn Bar]

Blackhawk (Chris) .............I think that is the best way I have ever heard it discussed or explained!  My first staves was reeeeal  tight ringed osage.  And I think any flaw even scraper marks on the back can cause failures.  And I've  made a few bow out of hickory an agree
Thanks,
DBar