Author Topic: Why such a debate over abo and copper?  (Read 4005 times)

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Offline Mike_H

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Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« on: July 13, 2013, 04:21:20 pm »
Ok, I like abo and all, but I do my best work with copper pressure flakers.  I will be devising an experiment with raw copper nuggets purchase online after I move and get settled.  I will be using primitive techniques to work the raw copper into rods for pressure flaking as well as probably making some large ones as "hammer stones".  There is ample evidence from Europe and some from the Mississippi Valley as well as Minnesota (don't quote me on that).   With that said, the copper tools I shall be making will be abo tools, none can say really different.  I might also try to replicate copper artifacts found at Cahokia Mounds as well with primitive tools.

Offline iowabow

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2013, 04:46:04 pm »
I think it is a great idea and saw on paleoplanet that it is considered ABO in that form. Sound like a fun project. So welcome to ABO world!
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline iowabow

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2013, 05:04:21 pm »
I want to make sure that my tone in the last post is not misunderstood. I was sincere in that it is really a cool idea.
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline twisted hickory

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2013, 05:14:27 pm »
As a guy who has done very little knapping it seems to be a debate. If someone gives me all the tools be it antler and bone or copper and some workable rock I would be  :) Once I am proficient w copper I will play w ABO. Either way is a bit challenging to the newbie. I presume that copper will take less maintains so in the future I see me having both sets of tools but using copper most as I would rather spend my time making heads and blades and less time on tool maintains. It is the same with my bows and arrows. I use modern finishes to reduce maintains of archery equipment

Offline Mike_H

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2013, 05:34:27 pm »
Iowabow, I've been abo for the last two years.  Just feel I do better with copper.  Thus I figured on doing abo copper.  I also use hammer stones and antler billets and not copper boppers for all my percussion work.  The only difference is my pressure tools.  I understood the tone, no worries, and love the vids.

 twisted hickory, I think it is best if every knapper learned both tool types, but that's just me.  Though I never used a copper bopper in my life....

Offline Josh B

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2013, 05:40:54 pm »
I personally don't give a tinker's damn what any body else uses whether it be stone, bone, copper or marshmallows!  If it works for you and you're enjoying it, great!  I use whatever works and I'm more than happy to expand my options when I'm shown a new way for me to do it.  As far as the higher maintenance bit goes, I don't see it.  I have used the same whitetail antler billet for three years now.  It just keeps getting better with use and zero maintenance.  That's why I use it.  The solid copper boppers probably would be comparable in longevity, but the copper cap types sure weren't.  I guess what I'm trying to say is, use what you want or have.  If someone tells you what your using isn't what they think you should use, tell em to go pound rocks!  Then pick up your tools and do the same.  I'm interested in learning as many techniques as I can.  All the debating over this subject does is detract from the learning experience.  Here's my old antler billet, plain simple and beat up.  I don't use it because I think I'm above using copper.  I use it cause it works for me with no maintenance whatsoever.  Rant over.  Josh

Offline Mike_H

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2013, 05:52:41 pm »
I agree Gun Doc.  It is mostly a "just for the hell of it" experiment.  Really just think it'll be fun and want to see how copper could have been worked with stone age tools.

Offline iowabow

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2013, 06:40:54 pm »
I am in with Mike and Gun Doc ...have fun and post what you find interesting so we all can learn from the experence. That is what I am doing...heck I hand out copper boppers for free!
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline 4dog

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #8 on: July 13, 2013, 07:18:19 pm »
Mmmmmmmm, marshmallows.
"SET" is always there !!!

Offline Mike_H

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2013, 07:29:34 pm »
If course I will.  I do a video series on my youtube channel to document it.  If I can find a source for raw copper that is already down there, all the better.

Offline TRACY

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2013, 10:34:00 pm »
No debate here ;) chip away with whatever floats your boat, but post pics :D


Tracy
It is what it is - make the most of it!    PN500956

Offline iowabow

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2013, 11:02:53 pm »
I am so going to find a way to knap with a marshmellows
(:::.) The ABO path is a new frontier to the past!

Offline Josh B

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2013, 11:19:14 pm »
I am so going to find a way to knap with a marshmellows

You just missed your opportunity!  While you cook your rock, you put the marshmallows on a stick and hold it over the fire.  After a couple dozen of em and you crash from the sugar high, you are then ready to nap!   >:D. Josh

Offline Mike_H

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2013, 12:14:29 am »
I am so going to find a way to knap with a marshmellows

You just missed your opportunity!  While you cook your rock, you put the marshmallows on a stick and hold it over the fire.  After a couple dozen of em and you crash from the sugar high, you are then ready to nap!   >:D. Josh

LOL!

Offline Bugtussle

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Re: Why such a debate over abo and copper?
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2013, 12:17:59 am »
+1 for what Gun Doc and everybody else said... :)

But Iowabow got me to thinking with his "ulna" post so today I cleaned up a deer ulna and dried it in the oven and i am going to let it sit on the patio to age.  Never did ABO knapping but it looks fun plus I think it will be priceless to see the looks on every bodies face at one of the spots that I deer hunt, when I reach down on the ground and pick a nice piece of chert and pull out a deer ulna and start wailing! :laugh:
“People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they are not on your road does not mean they are lost.” -- Dalai Lama